site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 29, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

My prediction is that everyone just fudges it and keeps discriminating. Blue states might pass some laws mandating discrimination, and they'll play the same shell game they do with gun laws. It will all get struck down, in a decade. By which time they'll have come up with a new bullshit workaround.

This still strikes me as an improvement. As the old saw goes, Hypocrisy is the tithe virtue pays to vice. Force the fucker to be hypocrites if they want to maintain the status quo rather than allowing them to maintain the false veneer of scientific impartiality. Make them expose who they are for all to see and let them be judged accordingly.

Their capacity for doublethink, and their capacity for making the bulk of the population swallow the doublethink, is essentially unlimited. You cannot expose them; they will continue to claim they aren't discriminating against whites and Asians even as they rather blatantly do it and claim to do so in other contexts.

We've been over this before

Just because you choose to live in a progressive bubble, and you choose to toe the woke line as means of protecting your status within that bubble, doesn't mean that everyone else must inevitably make that same choice.

I don't choose to toe the woke line. In fact, I don't toe the woke line; I'm at a company now where I can ignore the woke stuff and neither contradict nor acquiese to it. But my personal situation is irrelevant to the point. The Supreme Court can rule against discrimination against whites and Asians. The colleges will ignore the ruling. The administrative agencies will ignore the ruling. The lower courts will ignore the ruling. And none of them will see any problem with that, nor will the population at large.

Again, we've been over this, you might not like it but yes you do. After all, all you're doing in this post right here right now is mindlessly parroting progressive propaganda like a good little stooge.

After you get out of jail, I would like to see an Inferential Distance episode where you finally explain your strange predilection to insist that people believe things they vociferously repudiate and belong to groups they consistently and vocally loathe. Surely you do not hope for this to result in a productive discussion, nor are you so naive as to expect them to agree if you accuse them enough times.

And sure, bad faith exists. But if bad faith opponents are so persistent, it looks quite futile to me to do… this.

mindlessly parroting progressive propaganda like a good little stooge.

5-day ban

Have you guys decided to tighten the screws or something? A minor spat between regulars doesn’t require the banhammer imo.

Hylynka has been in the queue too much lately. Some of the other stuff would be difficult to explain why it's bad. This one was straightforward enough.

And I am currently as strict as I always am. Amadan is the nice one. If amadan leaves the queue clear for too long then I start to notice. If I start to notice I put on my mod cap until I stop noticing.

More comments

Noticing what they do is not "parroting progressive propaganda". I'm not sure what accusing everyone who opposes them as being them and ultimately suggesting a retreat into mysticism is, but it isn't going to help either.

This is exactly what will happen. The University of California has been flagrantly violating California's constitutional prohibition on affirmative action for decades with absolutely no consequences.