This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
This is probably too "boo outgroup", but given the direct relation I felt it was probably worth sharing.
Our once and former (?) moderator TracingWoodgrains has been called out as "a sociopathic troll" who exists to create anti-transgender drama. This is according to transgendermap.com, a pro-trans website which has built a list of communities toxic to the transgender movement.
The focus on Trace comes from their look at Blocked and Reported, and includes a list of ideologically affiliated subreddits, including:
It seems that the move came at the right time, since if we weren't particularly noticeable before, we likely are now.
Ugh, this is one of the things that most alienates me from many transgender activist communities. It's pure BPD black-and-white thinking. Anyone who isn't a perfect ally is a sworn enemy. This also contributes to the movement eating its own (e.g. the truscum controversy).
Every now and again, someone in the gaming space goes complete insane. Maybe it's a "company" like Digital Homicide. And often times the gaming press lambasts their outlandish and deranged behavior, as is deserved. Especially once the lawsuits start getting flung around, and the unhinged threats begin.
But every so often, the press covers these events with sympathy. And proclaims that the person going off the rails, suing everyone, and telling people they will come to their house and murder them, actually needs sympathy. They never say so in the article, but 100% of the time this happens, that person is trans.
Nearly 100% of my exposure to trans individuals, is having direct or proximate exposure to people who are obviously mentally ill. I get the TRA talking point is that being trans is hard. And also that academic studies show no higher rates of mental illness in trans individuals than non. Because all the best talking points go "Feel sorry for me and also that's a lie." But from the outside looking in, I just see one more obvious mental illness, often on top of a stack of other mental illnesses.
It's entirely possible I'm wrong, and being trans truly was the root cause of all those people's mental illnesses. But my gut says SRS is going down in history a lot like lobotomies and shock therapy. A procedure that may have some limited utility in very extreme cases, that somehow against all science and reason became the first line of treatment for an overly broad range of mental problems.
I'm beginning to form an opinion that there are a minority of these people who aren't trans, not really, but they've got such a list of mental problems that there is no way they can fit into normal society and be functional, so they look for a group that they can fit into. And the trans movement is one such, especially with the very open welcoming stance around medical gate-keeping etc. that 'you're trans if you say you're trans, nothing more needed'.
So this gives them an avenue to explain what is going on: I'm not weird/crazy, I'm trans and I'm being persecuted! And they don't have to engage with changing their behaviour or facing up to the fact that no, you're got mental problems that need to be treated. They're trans and everything that goes wrong is because of cis scum and transphobes persecuting them, and that is why they are depressed and anxious and so forth. And now they have licence to make demands that would never be countenanced otherwise, and to claim the protection of being part of a persecuted minority.
That's charitable. I'm pretty sure they are the majority given how the numbers of people identifying as trans have exploded by orders of magnitude.
A lot of the people identifying as trans seem to be deluded teenaged girls with no mental issues beyond depression and anxiety(that is, a severe case of ‘being a teenaged girl’) that isn’t helped by meddling in their hormones.
I’ve said before that I genuinely don’t know if trans activists are the majority of trans people, and I stand beside my claim that I don’t think anybody knows.
I mean, I do think a lot of the people making demands are just nutballs looking for an identity to cry oppression, and that not recognizing nutballs as nutballs is a very bad thing. But I’d shy away from saying that’s the majority of trans people.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link