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On the destruction of the Soviet obelisk in Riga

Recently it was widely reported that the – to use its lengthy official name - Monument to the Liberators of Soviet Latvia and Riga from the German Fascist Invaders was destroyed by local authorities in the Latvian capital. This is certainly not without precedent, as numerous Red Army monuments have been removed in the Baltic states and also in Poland, Czechia and other nations formerly in the Warsaw Pact, many of these decisions being clearly driven by events in the Ukraine since 2004. I think we on this forum are mostly aware of the talking points used to justify their removal so I won’t bother to repeat those here. Instead I’d make the simple assumption in this particular case that those Latvians who support this decision are clearly unhappy with the direction their national history took in the past, and ask the question what sort of past they’d have preferred to have. I suppose this is a relevant Culture War question in Eastern Europe.

Let’s suppose, for the sake of argument, that Operation Barbarossa begins as it did, and then history develops differently. From then on, I think Latvia had the following options:

A – Germany wins decisive victory in the East and incorporates Latvia directly into the Reich; it only remains as an administrative area, if that; presumably, local Jews and Russians are either deported/killed or used as slave labor, and German settlers move in

B – same as A, but Latvia is allowed to retain limited autonomy as a vassal state / protectorate

C – the war in the East concludes with a separate negotiated peace in 1941 or 1942, and Latvia remains an independent nation as part of some demilitarized neutral zone between Germany and the USSR

D – same as C, but Latvia remains under German influence and its autonomy remains limited in the practical sense, maybe the Germans even retain military bases in Latvian territory

E – the war concludes with decisive Allied victory, but Stalin recognizes the independence of the Baltic states and withdraws his troops from there; still, Soviet influence remains palpable

F – same as E, but the USSR incorporates Latvia into a new military and economic system of cooperation under Soviet hegemony, and maintains military bases on Latvian soil; also, the Soviets have enough influence, soft power and political mechanisms to ensure that Latvia cannot leave this sphere of influence

G – everything happens as it actually did, but the Baltic states get nominal independence after 1945 instead of getting turned back into Soviet republics. Basically, the Warsaw Pact and COMECON have 3 more members.

I assume hardliner Latvian nationalists would prefer B (even for them, A is too extreme), and more moderate nationalists would prefer C or D. For obvious reasons however, even in the current climate of general anti-Russian/Soviet sentiment, I very much doubt they’d be willing to say this out loud. After all, A, B, C and D all mean that Nazi Germany remains undefeated, and Latvian Jews get genocided and pogromed. For the same reason, I believe these 4 options are unacceptable for the Russian and Jewish minorities in Latvia. After all, even C entails the strong possibility that they get oppressed and ethnically cleansed.

Also, I cannot help but notice that the same very obviously applies to Ukrainian nationalists in general, no matter how much leeway they currently get in Western media.

I’ll make the guess that E is the most ideal option in the eyes of Latvian centrists/normies at first sight; however, it still means that, realistically speaking, Latvia never gets to join either NATO or the EU. It’s the same as Finland’s fate but worse, as the border region between Russia and Finland at least consists of dense forests and numerous lakes, practically impassable ground for Russians if they invade (again). Also, I think it’s clear that the Soviets would agree to something (in their eyes) so unrealistic only if the US agrees to the same in Western Europe. In short, this means that even if NATO is formed, it remains limited in its geographical scope i.e. West Germany never gets incorporated into it, in other words, either the two German states remain neutral or the German state never gets divided and remains neutral.

G is very obviously unacceptable for most Latvians, as the difference from what actually happened is negligible.

F is, I think, also something most of them would only begrudgingly accept. However, the issue with this is that it’s basically merely the local version of NATO, but overseen by Russians. If our position today is that this would be unacceptable and violates our political norms, we’d also have to say that it was not acceptable for the Americans to maintain hegemony over Western European states and station their military units and nuclear weapons on their soil. (I’ll make an expectation for West Germany, as it was a defeated enemy and no peace treaty was signed.) Alternatively, one can make an argument that “but it’s different when the Americans do it, the Russians have always been Mongoloid Ugric-Turkic savages”, but I don’t know how many normies would be willing to say this unironically.

Also, both F and G entail the very real likelihood that the Soviets still get to erect a huge monument in Riga. Even in the case of E it’s relatively likely.

So where does that leave us?

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I view removing Soviet monuments in the Baltic states the same way as I view the U.S. removing Confederate monuments - it is a short-sighted attempt by ideological tyrants to rewrite history and force it to conform to whatever ideological fad is currently dominant in their society. This mindset is disgusting and I oppose anybody who supports it.

Now I'm not saying that these monuments should remain standing in public when they're clearly offensive to so many people. By all means, remove them from public display in the city streets. But like it or not, they're art - and more importantly, they're art with significant historical value. They belong in a museum, where people who want to see them can go and study them to their heart's content. History never looks kindly on people who destroy historical artifacts to appeal to whichever short-term political view is trending, and I personally view people like that as barbaric savages.

History never looks kindly on people who destroy historical artifacts to appeal to whichever short-term political view is trending, and I personally view people like that as barbaric savages.

History surely allows for some change in the public symbols whenever an old conquerer is undone.

I don't think "being free from foreign occupation" qualifies as a "fad". And yes, if you were a slave, maybe you don't want to keep things around that remind you about your slavery. Those who oppose Confederate monuments have a bit lesser claim since they personally never been a slave (the last US slave died in 1940) but still some claim to that remains. Unfortunately, the American Left destroyed that claim by attacking monuments to people like George Washington, Churchill, Lincoln, 54th Massachusetts Regiment, Cervantes, Frederick Douglas and others. They conclusively proven it is not about slavery. The situation with Baltic republics is different - the history we're talking about is still fresh, and it continuing today. It's like there was a statue of a Confederate general in Gettysburg while Lincoln was speaking there, and the war were raging on - I think if the people of Gettysburg decided to take this statue down, it'd be understandable, despite Confederacy being part of their history, undoubtedly. Not every historical even deserves remembering the same way - we don't erect statues of Hitler, we remember what he did in other ways.

But like it or not, they're art

That's a very weak argument. First of all, they are not that beautiful. To be honest, there's a lot of "art" like this anywhere, and any second-rate sculptor could produce it, given necessary payment. Second, anything is "art", as Duchamp has proven us with his famous "Fountain". That works both ways - if anything is art, then why should we be so deferential to it? So, it's art - to the garbage heap with it. Third, it's not much chance Baltics would ever forget they were occupied by the Soviets, at least not soon. So there's no real "historical value" to this symbol of Russian domination over them - they already know Russians dominated them, they don't need a reminder.

History never looks kindly on people who destroy historical artifacts

History is who? If somebody in the future would lament over the historical value of Soviet artifacts and their unique value lost to the future generations - I think Baltic people could live with it without losing too much sleep. And ultimately, it's their decision, they don't owe anything to a hypothetical future history freak obsessed with Soviet artifacts. The historians can use the photos if they like.

I personally view people like that as barbaric savages.

Neither they owe anything to you. If you think Soviet domination artifacts are beautiful and majestic, you can order one to be erected on your own property for your own money (it is possible people who designed that one may be alive yet, or at least left the buleprints intact). Baltic people do not owe you any resources or any of their territory, or in fact any effort at all, to satisfy your feelings.