Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
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Probably the lingering effects of America being a frontier nation once upon a time. Where self reliance is a virtue.
It's fading. That is clear as day. The learned helplessness I see all around me is depressing. People acting like any sort of manual labor or recreational competence is beneath them, and the only worthy use of their time is byzantine credentialism scams. Why be the chump making things when you are supposed to be ordering them around?
Rarely do I see any of these people living lives as lofty as their view of their place in the world. But that's a topic for another day, and thread.
There are some valiant attempts to reclaim the virtue of self-reliance and the dignity of manual labor but it feels like, at best, fighting a delaying action. Ten years ago Mike Rowe (of Dirty Jobs fame) was invited to give TED talks or testify to the Senate about manual labor. Now the flavor of the day is just giving money to college grads who can't handle their finances like adults.
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But is it really worth their time? You've admitted you're several hundred dollars in the hole, though you do have something nice to show for it.
I'm not claiming that as a general standard for hobbies of course. If just seems to me that barring some low hanging fruit, for educated professionals like the majority of us, it makes much more sense to pay someone else to do it and free up our time for other activities.
I can't say it would be a sensible decision here, even skilled labor like that is cheap enough nobody bothers.
Given my effective hourly compensation as an American tech bro: me building a new gun or retaining wall or installing recessed lighting in my home is wild profligacy or strictly a money burning hobby. But I don't want to live a life where I earn so much that I can "barely afford to sleep" as one poster wrote in a humorous story about a fictional rich man.
On some level, sure I could have paid a couple of nice Mexicans to do this for me. They recognize me at the hardware store parking lot and wave to me hoping that I'll hire them for the day. But I want to do these things myself.
If I gave the impression I judge all hobbies by strictly utilitarian rules, I can only apologize.
It's your free time, if you enjoy the way you spent it, who am I to judge?
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You do understand I'm not literally hundreds in the hole right?
That wasn't obvious to me at all! You really need to lower your estimates for how informed I am about the costs in tools, space and labor it involves haha
Yeah, that was just in response to the hypothetical "what if you valued your time" question. It's interesting in the abstract, but useless practically. I have a salaried position, I can't just work more hours to make more money. If I did decide to slavishly min-max my time for profit seeking pursuits, it's unlikely I'd actually earn that much money in a side hustle or part time job. Or even half that.
If I did find somewhere that my more valuable skills could be brought to bare, I think my employment contract would actually prevent me from taking it.
Now the question of how long until the tools I purchased pay for themselves is an interesting one. The thickness planer I got has probably already paid for itself, or close to it. It literally halves if not quarters the cost of lumber buying it rough and milling it yourself versus buying it S4S or even S3S. Especially the place I get mine at that regularly has plenty of perfectly usable lumber in a "dent and ding" section. And let me tell you, S4S oak is expensive. It's the difference between paying $10 per board foot versus $2.5-4 a board foot.
My tablesaw I've gotten a ton of use out of, but deciding when it pays for itself is slightly more difficult. So far I've used it to build my kid a stool with a drawer in it, because she loves drawers. Also a box because I needed the practice. Made my in-laws a clock as a Christmas present. Used it when I rebuilt the rotted wall of my garage. Also made myself a bookshelf that was perfectly sized to go on top of my filing cabinet and hold my old game manuals. And when I replaced a bunch of rotted MDF trim.
Fuck whoever though MDF made good trim.
Then I built my wife a chair with it. And a garden. And a chicken coop. And a 3-bin compost.
Made a pair of cutting boards, one for us and one for the in-laws.
It's possible it's utility has paid for itself by now. It's been the workhorse of a great many of my projects.
My router table, circular saw, jig saw and miter saw are hard to say. I thought I'd use the circular saw more, but now I mostly use it to break down sheet goods. The miter saw I use all the damned time to rough cut planks, but I generally use my tablesaw to cut to final dimensions. The router table I've used for a lot of things that only it can do, or which just work better than a tablesaw. And the jig saw I've used to cut a lot of curves or sharp angles I wanted projects to have for decorative reasons that just were not gonna happen at all any other way. But in aggregate, it's hard for me to say these tools have paid for themselves. Still, it's a pleasure having the right tool for the right job.
In that sense, perhaps I am still "down" hundreds of dollars. On the other hand, I probably would have just spent the money on an RTX 3080 at pandemic prices, and blown a hundred hours in Cyberpunk 2077 instead. And if you are asking about return on investment or what my time is worth, that truly would have been money down the drain.
Sure sounds like there's a lot of depth in it, and while I can't say that I still understand the appeal myself, I can at least see why one might want to venture down the rabbit hole.
Keep at it! All that matters is that you enjoy it after all.
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