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PaperclipPerfector  9mo ago (text post)   31395 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 24, 2023

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You made a claim that the convictions are legally dubious.

They are legally dubious because the evidence is that they were going to protest in the exact same way they have protested in many other cases with the exact same uniform, shields, flag poles... I didn't say the arrests were dubious because police have to wait for a crime to happen before making an arrest. You are responding to an argument nobody has made.

This amounts to a claim that, when police have evidence that people are conspiring to commit a crime, they must wait for them to actually commit the crime before arresting them, in case the police are mistaken

We are not talking about an arrest, we are at the point where it has supposedly been proven beyond reasonable doubt that they were conspiring to riot. I am saying it would have been harder to have made that case if they had started the march before being arrested.

I know exactly what PF was going to do when they got to the event. They were going to leave the U-haul, form a column with flags, march and chant and then leave. That's what they have done in every single case. They don't even let the rank-and-file talk or interact with counter-protestors during the march precisely for these reasons. Arresting them before they even started made the job of the prosecution much easier, that was my point.

If the situation had unfolded, the prosecution would have had a harder time making case.

I know exactly what PF was going to do when they got to the event.

No, you believe that. You don't know it. Note that the jury, which actually heard the evidence, found beyond a reasonable doubt that you are wrong. Perhaps a little humility is in order.

  • -16

They had written plans showing that this is what they were going to do. They've done many protests with the same U-haul, uniforms, and shields and that is exactly what they have done every time. There was no evidence presented that they planned to riot this time in contradiction with every single other protest they have done in the past few years. A jury can get things wrong, you know, especially if the prosecutors and courts are biased against a defendant.

Rousseau's attorney claims that one of the phones which was handed to the FBI (without anybody having seen a warrant apparently) contained footage of the dress rehearsal of the march the day before... you have written plans showing an organized protest, a history of organized protest with the exact same uniform and materials, potential footage of the dress rehearsal of an organized protest... yes, I can say I know they they were not planning to riot and the jury got it wrong.

There was no evidence presented that they planned to riot

So, you have read the trial transcript? Can you provide a link?

A jury can get things wrong,

Yes, but a jury that has seen all the evidence is much more likely to be right than some guy on the internet who hasn't, especially when that person has an obvious bias.

  • -16

Yes, but a jury that has seen all the evidence is much more likely to be right than some guy on the internet who hasn't, especially when that person has an obvious bias.

Wasn't part of the controversy the seizing of the phones? Doesn't look like your theory of juries applies to this case at all.

Why not? It’s not like SS has the phones, either.

The defense wanted to make the seizure into a controversy, claiming that one of the phones was very cool annd very exculpatory. Since the only information we’ve been given is that one brief, we can’t assess whether that’s plausible. But the jury could.

it appears that the footage was entered as evidence but not shown to the Jury, from the link in the OP

We have previously reported on how the groups cell phones were given to the FBI by Coeur d’Alene Police, pursuant to a Federal Warrant that has not yet been seen by the Police, the defendants, the Judges in the case, and has not been entered into any court records.

The group’s leader, Thomas Rousseau, has alleged in a motion that those phones contain exculpatory evidence showing a “dress rehearsal from the day before” as well as body cam recordings from the day of the arrest.

The Judge granted Rousseau’s motion to compel.

In a video posted on the groups’ social media account 5 days after their arrest, some of that bodycam video is shown. According to notes taken by Casey Whalen during the trial, that footage was admitted into evidence, but not shown to the jury.

According to the Idaho Tribune, which was OP's original source:

We have previously reported on how the groups cell phones were given to the FBI by Coeur d’Alene Police, pursuant to a Federal Warrant that has not yet been seen by the Police, the defendants, the Judges in the case, and has not been entered into any court records.

The group’s leader, Thomas Rousseau, has alleged in a motion that those phones contain exculpatory evidence showing a “dress rehearsal from the day before” as well as body cam recordings from the day of the arrest.

The Judge granted Rousseau’s motion to compel.

that footage was admitted into evidence, but not shown to the jury

According to the notes referred to and linked to n the article, the relevant parts were apparently indeed shown to the jury:

-video is body cam seventeen minutes long, unedited go pro. Portion shown to jury is only about four minutes long -Plaintiff has seen the PF promo video, ten minutes version. -Judge rules it to be entered as an exhibit but denied letting the jury view it during trial

so, just an edited portion is shown to the jury. Doesn't pass the smell test for me, but it doesn't surprise me anymore.

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