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Notes -
I am not familiar with the specifics of this case, but it is important to note that this is NOT notable. in Idaho, as is the norm:
State v. Medina, 447 P. 3d 949 (Idaho: Supreme Court 2019).
Hence, IF they agreed to riot, then the crime was complete the moment that anyone committed an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy. That includes acquiring weapons, or a car, or many other acts. See State v. Averett, 136 P. 3d 350 (Idaho Court of Appeals 2006) ["In State v. Brown, 113 Idaho 480, 745 P.2d 1101 (Ct.App.1987), this Court stated that, "the overt act requirement is satisfied by slight evidence," and that the "act in furtherance of the conspiracy need not itself be criminal." Brown, 113 Idaho at 493, 745 P.2d at 1114. It is not required that there be a direct connection between the overt act of legally purchasing items used in the manufacture of methamphetamine and the criminal act of producing methamphetamine. The legal act of purchasing items necessary for the manufacture of the methamphetamine is sufficient to establish an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy."].
Hence, it does matter that, as you note, "it is not illegal to have a shield."
Saying it's "NOT notable" is just flatly wrong, it is a notable fact of the case, even if it is technically true that a conspiracy doesn't require waiting until the act is carried out.
It's notable because, in an alternative universe where they did arrive at the park and marched as they had planned to and exactly in the manner they have been documented to march in every single other case, it would have been harder to allege a conspiracy to riot. So it's notable that the case is easier given that they did not have an opportunity to demonstrate that they were there to protest. It seems unlikely to me they would have been arrested for marching if they had made it that far, only stopping them before they could start gave the prosecution a case here.
You made a claim that the convictions are legally dubious. You based that on ostensibly "notable" evidence which is in actuality legally irrelevant.
This amounts to a claim that, when police have evidence that people are conspiring to commit a crime, they must wait for them to actually commit the crime before arresting them, in case the police are mistaken. Have you ever advocated that in any other context, in which members of your team were not the ones being arrested?
They are legally dubious because the evidence is that they were going to protest in the exact same way they have protested in many other cases with the exact same uniform, shields, flag poles... I didn't say the arrests were dubious because police have to wait for a crime to happen before making an arrest. You are responding to an argument nobody has made.
We are not talking about an arrest, we are at the point where it has supposedly been proven beyond reasonable doubt that they were conspiring to riot. I am saying it would have been harder to have made that case if they had started the march before being arrested.
I know exactly what PF was going to do when they got to the event. They were going to leave the U-haul, form a column with flags, march and chant and then leave. That's what they have done in every single case. They don't even let the rank-and-file talk or interact with counter-protestors during the march precisely for these reasons. Arresting them before they even started made the job of the prosecution much easier, that was my point.
If the situation had unfolded, the prosecution would have had a harder time making case.
No, you believe that. You don't know it. Note that the jury, which actually heard the evidence, found beyond a reasonable doubt that you are wrong. Perhaps a little humility is in order.
They had written plans showing that this is what they were going to do. They've done many protests with the same U-haul, uniforms, and shields and that is exactly what they have done every time. There was no evidence presented that they planned to riot this time in contradiction with every single other protest they have done in the past few years. A jury can get things wrong, you know, especially if the prosecutors and courts are biased against a defendant.
Rousseau's attorney claims that one of the phones which was handed to the FBI (without anybody having seen a warrant apparently) contained footage of the dress rehearsal of the march the day before... you have written plans showing an organized protest, a history of organized protest with the exact same uniform and materials, potential footage of the dress rehearsal of an organized protest... yes, I can say I know they they were not planning to riot and the jury got it wrong.
So, you have read the trial transcript? Can you provide a link?
Yes, but a jury that has seen all the evidence is much more likely to be right than some guy on the internet who hasn't, especially when that person has an obvious bias.
Wasn't part of the controversy the seizing of the phones? Doesn't look like your theory of juries applies to this case at all.
Why not? It’s not like SS has the phones, either.
The defense wanted to make the seizure into a controversy, claiming that one of the phones was very cool annd very exculpatory. Since the only information we’ve been given is that one brief, we can’t assess whether that’s plausible. But the jury could.
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