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Culture War Roundup for the week of August 7, 2023

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I wonder how hard it is to predict who will marry interracially.

I ran into an old acquaintance the other day and was surprised to find out he married a black woman. Not surprised because he was a raging racist or something. It's just that in our social circles it's still a bit of an unusual thing to do. Looking back, there was nothing about this guy that said "yes, this is precisely the kind of dude who would marry a black woman."

Maybe the big ML models used by dating services are able to identify people more likely to "marry out" than the average user. Either way, it's clear some humans do, and some absolutely never would. What's behind it? Is it genetic? A particular upbringing?

I'm not even sure why I'm so interested in this question, but I am.

Nerdy shy guys obviously very disproportionately marry East and Southeast Asian women. I've thought about this and in most cases (based on speaking to and knowing a few of these couples) I think it's because these men don't approach women, but Asian mothers flip a switch when their daughters are 25 and say "you need to get married now", and cajole said daughters into approaching a nice, shy seeming, tall guy who looks like he has his shit together. I don't think this is bad behavior at all (and white mothers could probably do the same thing), but I've often been amused (and impressed) at how forward Chinese or Chinese-American women I've met are with men they want to date. A lot of these white guys have never been approached by a pretty-ish girl (or maybe any girl) and so fall into relationships that lead to marriage and kids.

White guys with black wives are more interesting. I've known quite a few (it seems much more common in the UK than the US). I'd say they often fall into three categories.

  1. The first is possibly-slightly-xenophilic ambitious white guy with FOB or otherwise 1st generation African woman. Often both professionals, ambitious, academic. One couple I know like this are two doctors, another a lawyer and a banker. Often the woman has a history of only dating white guys, at least since she moved to the West. I think affluent African parents are more relaxed about their kids marrying white than many Asian (especially South Asian) and Arab/North African parents, possibly for cultural and religious (they're usually Christian) reasons.

  2. The second category is the 'cool' white guy with a largely black friend group. He's a DJ, works in arts or advertising, has some creative role, definitely loves rap and hiphop, prides himself on being invited to the cookout. Goes to largely black clubs and bars on weekends. May have a crustpunk/trustpunk vibe, very into BLM. Charitably, he's simply around a lot of black people and so is obviously likely to date black women, less charitably he thinks it's a form of assimilation into the black culture he so admires and/or a fetish. Maybe it's all of the above.

  3. The last category is the 'nerdy husband of nerdy middle-class black girl' category. There are a lot of black nerds but ime they very rarely date each other. Black cottagecore anime girlies have skinny, tall white glasses boyfriends with scruffy beards, and black super smash bros anime D&D guys have short, sometimes chubby, white or asian girlfriends. The only black nerd couple I've ever met were both Africans who studied in a very white European city together. I was worried about a black friend of mine because the guy she was dating had a low-key reputation for being a Sam Hyde fan and casual racist, but they're now married and he seems to worship the ground she walks on, so maybe she changed him.

I think affluent African parents are more relaxed about their kids marrying white than many Asian (especially South Asian) and Arab/North African parents, possibly for cultural and religious (they're usually Christian) reasons.

And because parents, like women, tend to be hypergamous, and a white son-in-law is higher status than an Asian/Arab/Indian/etc. son-in-law.

and a white son-in-law is higher status than an Asian/Arab/Indian/etc. son-in-law.

And this here is all we need to see that in western countries being "white" is still an advantage ceteris paribus relative to being a minority. Note that this isn't about "whites are actually better at important thing XYZ hence they have higher status", it's "whites with traits ABC" are seen as better than equivalent "non-whites with trains ABC". Hence the continual need for programs to elevate non-whites relative to whites.

Being white is still seen as a plus in the year of our Lord 2023, thus all the programs necessary to change this state of affairs, which incidentally are often just another artifice by a group of white "leaders" telling us what we need instead of actually listening to us, and any non-white "leaders" having drunk the progressive white Kool-Aid so hard they might as well be white people with dark skin, there are very few genuine "bring the white man down a peg or three" things out there, and when they pop up they resolutely get condemned by whites because they don't conform to white people's expectations of what minorities should be like.

Among Indians, especially Indian mothers, having straight hair, blue eyes, and fair skin, is considered a huge plus. Needless to say, the number of Indian guys who have these traits is fairly low. In the West, fair skin for men is not a plus. Blue eyes are a fetish for some girls, but green is perhaps preferred. Straight hair in men is actually a negative, the ideal being Fabio type locks.

Asian women are not nearly as influenced by their mothers, but they seem to prefer height above all else. Whether or not the top of their head is above or below their date's nipples seems to matter hugely. I really can't imagine why. They also do not prefer straight hair, presumably as they think they have that covered.

You might think that "white people" are the single group that does not prefer traits associated with another ethnic group, but this misses the diversity among white people. All girls with straight hair curl their hair. All girls with curly hair straighten it. Girls with gentle curls blow dry their hair straight and re-curl it, so it looks exactly as it was before. Girls who are pale desperately try to tan. Blonde girls cry over their lack of eyebrows. Freckles are a positive only when you don't have them, etc.

People want what they don't have. I think that captures most of it. I imagine that there is some women out there who is perfectly comfortable with her body. I would guess she is trans, though.

especially Indian mothers, having straight hair, blue eyes, and fair skin, is considered a huge plus

I am from this culture, as is my whole family. I have never heard of straight hair being a particular influence on anyone's desires. Non-brown eyes as well are extremely extremely rare (my aunt has green eyes, other than that I can probably count on my hands the number of people I've seen with them back home) and even when people give a damn about it it's mostly for women rather than men.

Same with fair skin. Fair skin is a massive plus yes, but again more so for women than men and also it's only a plus because fair skin is associated with being higher caste (not universally true but that's the association). However this only extends to the point where the fair skin makes you mimic a high caste, being albino gets you no benefits at all. Same with being whiter than a Mediterranean, at that point your skin is so pale that it's very clear you're an outsider who's not even part of the caste system, and that gets you back down to bringing no beneifts. An Italian could benefit from "fair skin", a Nordic will not.

One of my earliest memories is my mother telling me (when I was around 3) that when I grow up I will marry an educated, intelligent girl who is a Muslim. She told me that if the girl was not Muslim but really loved me, she would convert, and if she didn't that was a sign it wasn't true love. (the Muslim bit is a stand in for similar cultural values, plenty of Muslims have different cultural values to me and would not make a good fit, my parents would also not be happy if I got a Muslim girl from a family that drank alcohol).

For a long time I was poisoned by western propaganda and scoffed at this, why did it matter whether she converted to Islam or I converted to her religion? For after all love is love and the situation is symmetric. I even went so far as to hurt my mother by saying that it wasn't a given that my children would be Muslim (this is one of the big regrets I have). However now that I have grown up and become wiser I have realized the value of what she spoke of, and now not only will I not marry a non-Muslim woman but if she converts I will rightfully place more conditions on her expected behavior compared to a woman who was born Muslim (no different to how banks charge more interest on loans from poor people compared to rich people). After having a good heart, cultural and values fit is the most important thing needed for a successful marriage (even more so than similar intelligence levels).