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PaperclipPerfector  2yr ago (text post)   32006 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 21, 2023

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You are embedding that liberalism is necessary for technology. The key thing for a place like the Saudis is the outperform their peer groups. The roads are better. It’s not like pre-modern liberalism America failed to build things.

I mean the absolute monarchies in the gulf have made notably better decisions than other Islamic nations with enough oil money to subsidize their entire economies.

“It is”

  • ignores history and thinks it’s just started in year 2000

European Civilization is not modern liberalism. European Civ was highly Christian Nationalism.

Also think you are highly underestimating Saudis civil society. But can’t find the source material now.

Non-secular liberalism: got us to the moon, gave us the Internet, and pretty much every other marvel technological marvel you were praising in previous comments.

Secular liberalism: coasted on for a dozen or so years and sent us tumbling down the slippery slope of various critical theories?

If you were being sarcastic in the last comment, that's a bit of a no-no around these parts.

Also, my country was pretty damn non-secular even in the midst of communism, even when I was alive, so try again.

I think you edited in the question when I was answering, I didn't see it. So I when I mentioned the sarcasm, I meant that "That is certainly a start date you could pick for secular liberalism" contradicts "ended before your grandparents were born".

But to answer your question, last time I was asked this is what I came up with:

On a whim, I recently rewatched all the 90's Star Trek shows, the go-to reference for optimistic SciFi. A thought that struck me, was that virtually all of the optimism actually comes from what you'd describe as a reactionary rejection of progress, rather than "we abolished hunger", equality, rationality, post-scarcity and other reasons people commonly reach for. After all the Borg have all of those things as well.

With all the tech they have, it's a miracle that they're still recognizably human. The crew had encounters with aliens that were rewriting their DNA on the fly, and they only used their technology for a cure, even though the fact they could concoct a cure means they could turn themselves into whatever they wanted. Cybernetic implants and prosthetics exist, but are absurdly benign for their level of technology. Some of the most iconic episodes are about the crew being tempted by some technology or some advanced alien, and them rejecting that temptation. Their society is devoted to a variety of edifying pursuits: science, exploration, art, craftsmanship, and cultivating traditions. A charming thing about it is the rejection of hyper-specialization, it seems like all the crew members make a point to dabble in various arts even when they suck at them.

Then on top of that, a few words on relationships. TNG aside, my utopian society would encourage stable long-term (ideally for-life) monogamous relationships, strong family and community relations, a love as a higher value that goes beyond the warm fuzzy feelings.

Sounds pretty good to me.

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