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naraburns  nihil supernum  2yr ago (text post)   31226 thread views

Israel-Gaza Megathread #1

This is a megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.

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I'm honestly a little conflicted about who I should support.

I don't understand how you can watch some of the videos that came out the last couple days and still feel this way. Raping someone to death and using their body as a trophy and then proudly releasing the video... makes it kind of an easy choice.

What confuses me; Is the hate I got for not putting certain political slogans in my twitter a few years ago... Where's all that outrage for actual atrocities against women? Why no feminist marches? Didn't people in Canada get their bank accounts frozen for donating to truckers honking loudly? Why is that apparatus not being applied here?

(Not the person you're replying to) The issue is that I automatically diminish most of that evidence from my consideration, because things in that general seem expected based on past experience that states at war (and ideological war) with each other will come up with a bunch of legitimate recordings of the other side doing some crazy shit. These don't provide zero evidence, but they don't actually provide all that much Ala https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/09/16/cardiologists-and-chinese-robbers/

I do have a position from looking around at various pieces of information, but just seeing the most-striking controversial videos would give you a confused look at the whole problem.

Perhaps because they were alive before last Saturday? It is not for nothing that people who actually spend serious attention on this conflict (and don't have certain affinity for one side) usually end up lament the evil done by both sides and shake their heads in despair.

The Arabs could have had another Arab state, but they declined the UN partition agreement and attacked Israel as soon as she was born - Israel won that war and expanded her territory. If Ukraine ousts Russia and takes a bit of Russian territory to boot would we blame them? The palestinians rejected a Clinton deal for a two state solution in 2000...they elected Hamas as soon as Israel withdrew from Gaza...I think the horrors of war are what we see from Israel, but the Palestinians commit actual terrorism.

attacked Israel as soon as she was born

Such a miraculous thing, states being "born". With totally no other context behind the event. Land of virgin births indeed.

Raping someone to death and using their body as a trophy and then proudly releasing the video... makes it kind of an easy choice.

I've seen no evidence that this happened. Have you?

I have not seen any rapes captured on video, but I did see a young woman's body piled upon a bunch of corpses in the back of a pickup being spat upon and laughed at by multiple individuals in a parade. That much is clear really happened, and I believe this to be the incident most are describing. Whether she was raped is unclear from my perspective but not really hard to imagine. Nonetheless they paraded her body around with no exaggeration.

but I did see a young woman's body piled upon a bunch of corpses in the back of a pickup being spat upon and laughed at by multiple individuals in a parade.

You did not see this. If you are referring to the video I think you're referring to, which people keep repeating as if it's not 1 data point. You are repeating headlines you read uncritically about a video that does not demonstrate what you said. Video (NSFW). Apparently 2 guys did spit, never noticed until now.

Looks like she's alive now.

That seems shocking to me. That was the kind of scene I did not think people came back from.

Her mom seems to have gotten some message from someone claiming to be (or maybe is, I don’t think it’s beyond question) Hamas or Hamas-associated saying she’s alive. The mother is clinging to hope, can’t fault her for that, but I doubt it.

Obviously it is possible someone with her visible injuries could survive with medical attention, and there are competent (largely volunteer) doctors and internationally funded hospitals in Gaza, but it really didn’t seem likely that the men in the trucks were on their way to drop her off at the hospital, to say the least.

With the worldwide exposure and she would make a good hostage that's for sure. I agree though, I think hope she's alive is slim.

Doubtful, it does look like her mom has some false hope tho.

It'd take a lot to keep someone with that many massive fractures in their legs from bleeding out internally - and in some of the video of her she has what looks like a gunshot wound to the head.

Tourniquets can work. IF she is conscious when she reaches modern medical care AND she just has the fractures in her legs she can probably be saved.

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