naraburns nihil supernum
7mo ago
(text post)
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #1
This is a megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
Apparently some left wing organizations are revealing themselves. Here is an X account claiming to represent “BLM Chicago” implicitly (but very nearly explicitly) declaring their support for the terrorist attacks: https://x.com/BLMChi/status/1711793142742073573?s=20
My questions are:
Who actually runs this account?
Have they tried to articulate what they actually mean by this?
I’ll be honest that my opinion of BLM, especially after the 2020 riots, is quite low. This seems to fit a little too well into the right wing hatred of them.
Ok the other hand: are there any stories in Jewish folklore about creating a monster and then having it turn on you?
I saw this right before reading @Stefferi claiming that "the right (apart from the explicit Nazis, of course) and at least parts of the center-left immediately smells blood in the water and starts trawling the social medias for any far-left comments that either are pro-Hamas or can be presented that way"
Not really sure what else to say. Just seems like whatever happens someone will be playing the "deflect, minimize, Republicans Pounce" game to get people to ignore it.
Yes, there are far-left comments that are pro-Hamas. However, from what I've seen in online discussions, they also get a large amount of pushback, including from fellow leftists, in ways that violent "decolonization" rhetoric would have not received, previously. It feels like a vibe shift; of course the thing about vibe shifts is that they're very hard to quantify.
I've also observed, for a long time, that there exists a right-wing tendency to use Israel/Palestine conflict and related accusations of antisemism for tit-for-tat attacks on the Left for avenging left-wing attacks on right (justified or not) for racism. This includes a tendency to vastly exaggerate the reach and importance of anti-semitic attitudes on the Left, including implying that any and all condemnations of Israel, the occupation etc. are antisemism. Again, this is not something that is limited to this conflict but a longer observation. If that's something I've noticed, that's something I'm going to say, "Republicans pounce" memery notwithstanding. Weakmanning, guilt by association etc. are basic rhetorical tactics used by all sides, after all.
I'm slightly agreed with you there seems to be a vibeshift among the academic left. It's coming at the same time as a lot of emboldened explicit antisemitism from non-institutional actors of course, and it remains to be seen if it sticks. But e.g. our local Greens party put out a statement that was a lot more equivocal and both-sides-ist than I would normally expect from them (they have long championed BDS and routinely call Israel an apartheid state, for example).
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Notes -
Apparently some left wing organizations are revealing themselves. Here is an X account claiming to represent “BLM Chicago” implicitly (but very nearly explicitly) declaring their support for the terrorist attacks: https://x.com/BLMChi/status/1711793142742073573?s=20
My questions are:
Who actually runs this account?
Have they tried to articulate what they actually mean by this?
I’ll be honest that my opinion of BLM, especially after the 2020 riots, is quite low. This seems to fit a little too well into the right wing hatred of them.
Ok the other hand: are there any stories in Jewish folklore about creating a monster and then having it turn on you?
I saw this right before reading @Stefferi claiming that "the right (apart from the explicit Nazis, of course) and at least parts of the center-left immediately smells blood in the water and starts trawling the social medias for any far-left comments that either are pro-Hamas or can be presented that way"
Not really sure what else to say. Just seems like whatever happens someone will be playing the "deflect, minimize, Republicans Pounce" game to get people to ignore it.
Well, how am I supposed to respond?
Yes, there are far-left comments that are pro-Hamas. However, from what I've seen in online discussions, they also get a large amount of pushback, including from fellow leftists, in ways that violent "decolonization" rhetoric would have not received, previously. It feels like a vibe shift; of course the thing about vibe shifts is that they're very hard to quantify.
I've also observed, for a long time, that there exists a right-wing tendency to use Israel/Palestine conflict and related accusations of antisemism for tit-for-tat attacks on the Left for avenging left-wing attacks on right (justified or not) for racism. This includes a tendency to vastly exaggerate the reach and importance of anti-semitic attitudes on the Left, including implying that any and all condemnations of Israel, the occupation etc. are antisemism. Again, this is not something that is limited to this conflict but a longer observation. If that's something I've noticed, that's something I'm going to say, "Republicans pounce" memery notwithstanding. Weakmanning, guilt by association etc. are basic rhetorical tactics used by all sides, after all.
I'm slightly agreed with you there seems to be a vibeshift among the academic left. It's coming at the same time as a lot of emboldened explicit antisemitism from non-institutional actors of course, and it remains to be seen if it sticks. But e.g. our local Greens party put out a statement that was a lot more equivocal and both-sides-ist than I would normally expect from them (they have long championed BDS and routinely call Israel an apartheid state, for example).
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