This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
As someone living there … I think the Swiss -> German attitude is not that bad. But maybe the Swiss are just too polite to show their contempt :P
Austria though … they are certainly more open about their attitude towards Germans (though again it’s mostly just harmless ribbing, nothing that would actually get in the way of living there).
Austrians, at least cultured Viennese, have an actual air of intellectual superiority versus most Germans (especially north of Bavaria, which they somewhat identify with, and Baden, which was iirc Austrian territory for a while anyway). The Swiss don’t think they’re intellectually superior to the Germans, they have the kind of attitude that like a wealthy Texan who ‘identifies’ as a salt of the earth good ol boy has to a Yankee intellectual, even if the latter is poorer. That’s my experience.
Urban Swiss tend to be less prejudiced toward Germans since a lot of valuable jobs like doctors are done by Germans and the Swiss are usually find with them. The Swiss who dislike Germans tend to be the more rural ones in the mountains because 80% of tourists and many retirees are German, push up prices and consider themselves ‘equal’ to Swiss-Germans because they speak the same language. That equal thing is important, I was in Flims over the summer and it was funny because I got the impression (again) that Swiss Germans don’t necessarily mind ubiquitous Italians in the service (and every other besides) industry in Germanic Switzerland because the Italians have an attitude of conscious or subconscious deference to them. Even Brits and Americans usually have a certain ‘respect’ for the ‘superior’ Swiss way of life, praise the cleanliness, order etc even as they struggle with it.
Germans, on the other hand, don’t consider themselves inferior to Swiss despite coming from (in Swiss eyes) a much poorer and worse country. They consider themselves equals and will walk into a Migros and make small talk with the cashier or try to joke around with the local hiking club while waiting for the cable car to reopen after lunch as if they’re “one of them”. To the German, the Swiss is just a rich hick who can be conversed with as usual and is expected to understand them, and is still fundamentally a German. Why show deference?
Why does being different mean you should show deferrence?
More options
Context Copy link
In my experience, the swiss are a materialistic bunch. Austrians, on the other hand, are a depressive bunch. I still remember when I went to Viena and everyone seemed so miserable. It was real downer tbh.
Damn, I really need to visit Vienna.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
This certainly can be quite hostile.
More options
Context Copy link
Lol. If the Bushes were still active in national politics, would we be calling them transTexan?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link