naraburns nihil supernum
6mo ago
(text post)
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #2
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
The atmosphere right now reminds me a lot of the post 9-11, war on terror vibes. The US is about to get dragged into some middle eastern conflicts by Israel. The propaganda parrots, "patriots", Zionists, and arm chair generals repulse me. The US is led by a geriatric imbecile, our economy is hanging on by a thread, our weapon and oil stockpiles are depleted, our reputation is dwindling and our allies are weak or disappearing. This will not end well for the US. Unfortunately, I think the train has left the station. I hope this will be worth it.
Personally, I think this is the end of Zionism. Public perception has changed and the propaganda doesn't work like it used to. Israel might actually get fucked now. I feel we are in for large societal and cultural changes, as well as a geopolitical reordering if not WW3.
I was alive then and it's nothing like post 9/11. A lot of people are criticizing Israel and US foreign policy in the ME right now. That definitely wasn't happening after 9/11. Also, there is a lot more sympathy for Muslims now, especially on the Left. A war for Israel would be extremely unpopular.
I was in college and, at least there anyway, the "we deserved it" talk was immediate, I almost want to say same day. It certainly was not the universal or even the majority opinion but it was sizable and loud.
As a high school junior at the time, my experience largely matches yours. I think 9/11/2001 had too much confusion and fog-of-war for much of a narrative to develop, especially among high school students who were in class (first day of class for my high school, actually!), but by 9/12 and certainly by 9/13, the narrative of "What did we do wrong to deserve this?" or "What did we do to drive these people to such desperation that they felt they had no choice but to lash out in this way?" were very popular, both among students and teachers.
George Bush had like a 92% approval rating. I'm sure there were Marxists and libertarians on college campuses at that time who said we deserved it but the vast majority of people were pissed off and wanted blood.
It seems funny in hindsight, but over the full 8 year terms, George W. Bush had a higher average weekly approval rating (49.4) than Barack Obama (47.9), largely based on the year or so after 9/11. In some ways, it seems like an example of how recency bias clouds expectations. But also that average approvals have been trending downward since the end of the Cold War -- perhaps indicative of larger trends of growing partisanship.
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Notes -
The atmosphere right now reminds me a lot of the post 9-11, war on terror vibes. The US is about to get dragged into some middle eastern conflicts by Israel. The propaganda parrots, "patriots", Zionists, and arm chair generals repulse me. The US is led by a geriatric imbecile, our economy is hanging on by a thread, our weapon and oil stockpiles are depleted, our reputation is dwindling and our allies are weak or disappearing. This will not end well for the US. Unfortunately, I think the train has left the station. I hope this will be worth it.
Personally, I think this is the end of Zionism. Public perception has changed and the propaganda doesn't work like it used to. Israel might actually get fucked now. I feel we are in for large societal and cultural changes, as well as a geopolitical reordering if not WW3.
I was alive then and it's nothing like post 9/11. A lot of people are criticizing Israel and US foreign policy in the ME right now. That definitely wasn't happening after 9/11. Also, there is a lot more sympathy for Muslims now, especially on the Left. A war for Israel would be extremely unpopular.
I was in college and, at least there anyway, the "we deserved it" talk was immediate, I almost want to say same day. It certainly was not the universal or even the majority opinion but it was sizable and loud.
As a high school junior at the time, my experience largely matches yours. I think 9/11/2001 had too much confusion and fog-of-war for much of a narrative to develop, especially among high school students who were in class (first day of class for my high school, actually!), but by 9/12 and certainly by 9/13, the narrative of "What did we do wrong to deserve this?" or "What did we do to drive these people to such desperation that they felt they had no choice but to lash out in this way?" were very popular, both among students and teachers.
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George Bush had like a 92% approval rating. I'm sure there were Marxists and libertarians on college campuses at that time who said we deserved it but the vast majority of people were pissed off and wanted blood.
It seems funny in hindsight, but over the full 8 year terms, George W. Bush had a higher average weekly approval rating (49.4) than Barack Obama (47.9), largely based on the year or so after 9/11. In some ways, it seems like an example of how recency bias clouds expectations. But also that average approvals have been trending downward since the end of the Cold War -- perhaps indicative of larger trends of growing partisanship.
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