naraburns nihil supernum
7mo ago
(text post)
29970 thread views
Israel-Gaza Megathread #2
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
The atmosphere right now reminds me a lot of the post 9-11, war on terror vibes. The US is about to get dragged into some middle eastern conflicts by Israel. The propaganda parrots, "patriots", Zionists, and arm chair generals repulse me. The US is led by a geriatric imbecile, our economy is hanging on by a thread, our weapon and oil stockpiles are depleted, our reputation is dwindling and our allies are weak or disappearing. This will not end well for the US. Unfortunately, I think the train has left the station. I hope this will be worth it.
Personally, I think this is the end of Zionism. Public perception has changed and the propaganda doesn't work like it used to. Israel might actually get fucked now. I feel we are in for large societal and cultural changes, as well as a geopolitical reordering if not WW3.
I was alive then and it's nothing like post 9/11. A lot of people are criticizing Israel and US foreign policy in the ME right now. That definitely wasn't happening after 9/11. Also, there is a lot more sympathy for Muslims now, especially on the Left. A war for Israel would be extremely unpopular.
Me too, and I admit that the initial vibe was pretty well captured by The Onion's "We Must Retaliate With Blind Rage vs. We Must Retaliate With Measured, Focused Rage" debate. Bill Maher got bumped from ABC for saying a suicide attack wasn't "cowardly", because "murder is bad, cowardice is bad, therefore murder is cowardice" wasn't a textbook example of the Fallacy of the Undistributed Middle, it was just something Real Americans should bellyfeel.
That definitely wasn't happening after 9/11.
Depends on how long you define "after" to mean. It started happening faster than the wars did.
There was some "Voter March"/"No Blood For Oil" protest on 9/12 that only attracted a thousand protesters ... but by the time the reaction to 9/11 was clearly in motion it was attracting the largest anti-war rally in history.
I just looked it up and at one point afterwards George Bush had a 92% approval rating. I would say that is pretty different from now. Obviously you can find examples of people disagreeing, but objective measures like polling and voting show it was a much different time. That link you posted was a year and a half after 9/11.
Yeah the Afghanistan war was launched less than a month after September 11 and the rhetoric started pointing that way almost immediately. Bush started by demanding the Taliban hand over Bin Laden or else, they didn't, and the "or else" happened.
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The atmosphere right now reminds me a lot of the post 9-11, war on terror vibes. The US is about to get dragged into some middle eastern conflicts by Israel. The propaganda parrots, "patriots", Zionists, and arm chair generals repulse me. The US is led by a geriatric imbecile, our economy is hanging on by a thread, our weapon and oil stockpiles are depleted, our reputation is dwindling and our allies are weak or disappearing. This will not end well for the US. Unfortunately, I think the train has left the station. I hope this will be worth it.
Personally, I think this is the end of Zionism. Public perception has changed and the propaganda doesn't work like it used to. Israel might actually get fucked now. I feel we are in for large societal and cultural changes, as well as a geopolitical reordering if not WW3.
I was alive then and it's nothing like post 9/11. A lot of people are criticizing Israel and US foreign policy in the ME right now. That definitely wasn't happening after 9/11. Also, there is a lot more sympathy for Muslims now, especially on the Left. A war for Israel would be extremely unpopular.
Me too, and I admit that the initial vibe was pretty well captured by The Onion's "We Must Retaliate With Blind Rage vs. We Must Retaliate With Measured, Focused Rage" debate. Bill Maher got bumped from ABC for saying a suicide attack wasn't "cowardly", because "murder is bad, cowardice is bad, therefore murder is cowardice" wasn't a textbook example of the Fallacy of the Undistributed Middle, it was just something Real Americans should bellyfeel.
Depends on how long you define "after" to mean. It started happening faster than the wars did.
There was some "Voter March"/"No Blood For Oil" protest on 9/12 that only attracted a thousand protesters ... but by the time the reaction to 9/11 was clearly in motion it was attracting the largest anti-war rally in history.
I just looked it up and at one point afterwards George Bush had a 92% approval rating. I would say that is pretty different from now. Obviously you can find examples of people disagreeing, but objective measures like polling and voting show it was a much different time. That link you posted was a year and a half after 9/11.
I was too young by then but did Bush already commit to war at the period his popularity was so high?
Yeah the Afghanistan war was launched less than a month after September 11 and the rhetoric started pointing that way almost immediately. Bush started by demanding the Taliban hand over Bin Laden or else, they didn't, and the "or else" happened.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link