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naraburns  nihil supernum  2yr ago (text post)   31354 thread views

Israel-Gaza Megathread #2

This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.

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What slogan do you want someone who doesn’t want the Israeli state to kill or displace Palestinians to use?

‘Jews have no right to defend themselves’ or maybe ‘brown people can never do anything wrong’. Israel pulled out of Gaza in 200, Gaza then proceeded to elect a terrorist group which then started shooting at Israel. Israel blockaded them to prevent the inflow of weapons and promised it would stop if Gaza stopped shooting, it didn’t stop killing random Israelis for 16 years, then tore down the fence and killed more random Israelis, at which point Israel is now bombing them.

There isn’t a reasonable framework in which Israel isn’t well within its rights to bomb Gaza, and Hamas’s habit of putting military facilities in civilian infrastructure guarantees that Israel will kill and displace Palestinian civilians by doing so. You could be Amish level pacifist I guess, but that’s not a pro-Palestine framework. The only framework that allows you to be pro-Palestine is either ‘Palestinians are brown, and thus automatically right regardless of the facts of the case’ or ‘Israelis don’t have the right to defend themselves for some reason’.

Why is “Israelis don’t have a right to continue to settle on Palestinian land and they should give it back” so hard to say?

Why is “Israelis don’t have a right to continue to settle on Palestinian land and they should give it back” so hard to say?

Because it's equivalent to "Israeli Jews should be pushed into the sea."

How is it equivalent exactly? Besides the millenia old blood feud that's tied to it, I mean.

Because to the Palestinians, Palestinian land is "from the river to the sea".

Surely all the attempts at codifying a two state demarcation that have since been soundly violated should count for something in defining what is and isn't "Palestinian land". Leaving again, the blood feud aside.

Do the Palestinians agree that those attempts count for anything in defining what is not "Palestinian land"?

Well they did sign those agreements. Given that does it matter what they really think?

Of course both sides would like the whole of Palestine for themselves and to get rid of the other ethnic group. They've both made that clear. But that doesn't make them both blameless when they break their word on any attempt to avoid war, surely.

Let us remind ourselves there is such a thing as compromise.

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