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PaperclipPerfector  6mo ago (text post)   27705 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 23, 2023

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Russia executing own retreating soldiers, US says

Russia is executing soldiers who try to retreat from a bloody offensive in eastern Ukraine, the White House has said. According to the US, some of the casualties suffered by Russia near Avdiivka were "on the orders of their own leaders".

Russian and Ukrainian troops have been locked into a fierce battle for the frontline town since mid-October. Russia is thought to have suffered "significant" losses in this time. Ukrainian estimates put the number of Russian casualties in Avdiivka at 5,000, while the US says that Russia lost "at least" 125 armoured vehicles and more than a battalion's worth of equipment.

Do you believe the primary claim in this article (from the Pentagon)? If so, or if not, why? If you think the claim is a lie, do you think it originates with American or Ukrainian propagandists. If you think the claim is true, do you think Russia’s actions are likely to have a positive or negative effect on Russian troop morale moving forward?

I’m interested in how our prejudices and priors developed over the last year and half of this war - and more generally - affect our judgment when we hear stories reporting by one side like this. What would it take for you to believe or disbelieve the claim?

This propaganda has been circulating from both sides since early in the war. It seems unlikely considering neither side has seen mass desertions. One bit of info that seems to be missing from this more mainstream take is that there are different groups fighting in Ukraine. Usually the propaganda goes on about how professional soldiers like VDV are shooting the conscripted prisoners, or the ultra-nationalist like Azov and Kraken are shooting the recent conscripts ripped from the street. I guess if this were true then how it effects morale would be variable, as neither side is just some homogeneous group. I agree with everyone else that it's probably happened but sporadically and is exaggerated by both sides for propaganda purposes.

Right. I'm highly confident that Wagner executed some of its fighters for desertion/surrender. It wouldn't surprise me if Storm Z (whatever the Hell that is) has done the same. It wouldn't surprise me if Ukrainian ultranationalist units have done bad things to reluctant conscripts. I don't think that either the normie Russian or Ukrainian armies are shooting their own soldiers.

As long as it's well known that deserters get shot, you shouldn't need to actually shoot too many.

That is good approach to Europe southern border. I have for long time said that if we sink the boats the total lives lost in the Mediterranean will be lower than today

Probably true, but you could likely get the same effect with an Australia-style turnback policy.

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