This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Hungary is a country known for its eclectic-styled Parliament building, classical composers, Jewish STEM people, and, more recently, Viktor Orban. The last enjoying a less uniformly good reputation in the US, than the preceding three.
The American conservatives has collaborated with him, and even held a con in Budapest, but the American progressives (and their ideological allies in Europe) have criticized his policies and rule in general. The main issues they have with are alleged corruption and authoritarianism, alleged anti-LGBTQIA2S+ policies, and most recently, alleged pro-Russia stance.
The recent electoral defeat of the closest thing he has to an ally in the EU, Polish PiS party, probably has him worried. Before he could count on Poland to prevent the sternest EU punishments being meted out, but the victory of Donald T. throws a wrench in Viktors continued plans for Hungary. On the other hand, recent triumph of Fico in the formerly magyarizated country of Slovakia may provide a replacement friend in the EU. In 2022 Hungary net received from the EU 4.444x10^9 EUR, which is 2.5% of the Hungarian 2022 GDP or 13% of the Hungarian 2022 fiscus. It is possible he avoids sanctions by mere surface level changes, while staying the course, but unlike the founding member, New Europe doesn't have the favour of EU leadership, so its violations of EU laws aren't going to be overlooked and forgotten.
The latest news from the landlocked country, formerly ruled by an admiral, is that a photograph exhibition held in Budapest was forced to deny admission to minors. The reason being that some photos depicted members of an "LGBTQ+" community, photos which were described by the director of the exhbition as being "positive and inclusive". The word "censorship" was also used to describe this move to prevent children from being exposed to content which the state deems to be inappropriate for them.
The parallel to the American parents opposed to minors being allowed to view content considered by them to promote or normalize LGBTQIA2S+ lifestyles and thus arguing that school libraries shouldn't stock materials considered controversial, to me appears obvious. I assume that Orbans focus on cutting off children from LGBTQIA2S+ materials is partially motivated by his knowledge of American right wing tactics, gained by their co-operation with him, and partially it being less controversial than cutting off willing adults. Children are still considered to be innocent of sexual knowledge, and attempts to render them not so, are in some cases already illegal.
Disclaimer: @some has blocked me, and won’t be responding to anything I say here.
Can someone remind me what the “2S” is supposed to stand for? I’ve seen LGBTQ+, and I’ve seen QILTBAG, so those are no mystery. Likewise with the occasional culture warrior trying to sneak in an M or P.
I agree that the analogy to various American policies is obvious. At least some of those had the fig leaf—no pun intended—of banning sexually explicit material, while these photographs only appear to reference drag. Presumably the unnamed “far-right Hungarian lawmaker” who filed this complaint is merely picking low-hanging fruit.
2S is for Two-Spirit. I don't know exactly what it is, but I think I heard it's some sort of double-gender thing that some indigenous people of somewhere, I think, have or had.
Hijras aren't just effeminate, many of them are intersex or have ambiguous genitalia, and it's a tradition in many parts of the country to hand over such children to the local Hijra community shortly after birth, since in earlier times they'd have few prospects for a normal life via the usual marriage route. Less common in urban areas as opposed to rural parts, but it still happens.
There are also plenty who are eunuchs for one reason and another, others who you could call transgender or transvestites. It's rare for a plain old gay boy to end up in their ranks, the usual approach is to just marry them off as normal when they're old enough and see how that plays out.
I have a dim view of them for reasons unrelated to their gender identity, they largely make a living by terrorizing social events and particularly weddings, you have to bribe them to not make a scene and confer you with a "blessing", and they accost travelers on public transports and will not hesitate to insult you or grope you if you don't give them a few coins.
Hijras are a very small minority (albeit they annoy well out of proportion to their number), I would be surprised if there were more than a few hundred or thousand of them in a typical city, though you'll find concentrations in the larger ones
I had previously heard that it was occasionally the case that they would castrate children. I didn't want to malign them more than I already have, so I checked, and it's far worse than I thought:
https://www.indiatimes.com/news/lgbtq-the-truth-about-how-hijras-are-made-in-india-because-they-re-not-always-born-that-way-257525.htmlot-always-born-that-way-257525.html
That's certainly food for thought, you can't just naively transfer Western concepts of transvestitism or transgenderism to other contexts, and these guys victimize each other just as much as they do the general public, and much of the scorn and disdain they get is richly deserved. A 1000 rupees is just 10 USD or so..
My, you're a straight one. That's a common enough euphemism/outdated street slang for heroin, specifically the dirty stuff that's otherwise known as black-tar heroin. I don't think it's India specific, even if it's archaic.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link