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ZorbaTHut  1yr ago (text post)   35167 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 19, 2022

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White Patriarchy conspiracies at the fringe

Forgive me but isn't this type of thinking exceptionally mainstream in a way that QAnon just... isn't?

No, because "White Patriarchy" refers to two different ideas: One is that there is a secret masonic lodge of old white dudes who wear red robes and sacrifice a BIPOC virgin every full moon to anoint themselves in the blood of the innocent as they secretly control everything, man!

And the second "White Patriarchy" is noticing that white men hold something like 65-70% of all US political offices, but constitute 30% of the population.

One of these is empiricism, one is insanity.

Qanon is just insanity.

And the second "White Patriarchy" is noticing that white men hold something like 65-70% of all US political offices, but constitute 30% of the population.

And yet when people Notice things like this about other population groups, for example Jews, that's considered wacky conspiracy on the level of the first idea you mentioned. It seems there's actually only one group you're allowed to notice and decry the dominance of.

And the second "White Patriarchy" is noticing that white men hold something like 65-70% of all US political offices, but constitute 30% of the population.

One of these is empiricism, one is insanity.

In the name of empiricism, I bid you take a deeper look. I think you'll find these positions are disproportionately held by an even smaller group than that!

But other than Jews ruling the world, this is just special pleading. There's no lack of ridiculous fringe left-wing beliefs, feminist and non-feminist; tarot, astrology, otherkin, are all as absurd as anything the worst of Q asserts, and feminism's mainstream belief is certainly more than Noticing the numbers.

My intuition tells me that it's fair game to consider QAnon "political" but that tarot, astrology, and otherkin are "not political." This is true even granting that my worldview is opposite those who believe tarot etc.

If some rhetorical trick has been played on me to recenter QAnon nearer to the center of "right winger" and no such trick has been played w.r.t. tarot and the left, please elaborate on that.

My intuition tells me that it's fair game to consider QAnon "political" but that tarot, astrology, and otherkin are "not political.

I don't see why this matters. The insanity of a belief seems entirely separate from its political focus. The idea Hillary Clinton is a reptile or drinks infant blood is insane; so is the idea that the moon has exerted psychic control over you since birth or that you are actually a Zergling.

Certain crazy conspiracies are popular on the right, and certain crazy conspiracies are popular on the left. They're all crazy conspiracies.

It's all fun and games until someone decides they're a Baneling instead.

Motte: White Patriarchy is empiricism

Bailey: White Patriarchy is a theory that the observations are caused by a self-perpetuating system of laws, institutions, people

Strawman: White Patriarchy is a conspiracy theory

It's possible I'm being too charitable here, and what I've labeled "Bailey" is what someone else would label "Motte" and what I've labeled "Strawman" is what someone else would label "Bailey." I suppose it all depends on if in the real world, there are activists out there who behave as if there is a conspiracy of white people keeping the common person down.

Still, the self-perpetuation theory is promoted by people who I suspect also attack science and empiricism, so it's no surprise that this position is bears more resemblance to a religious faith than to a scientific theory. (I've certainly never read about anyone trying to falsify this position, while coming from an angle of trying to reduce racism).

I didn’t have any better expression for conspiracy theory on the political left than white patriarchy. Since it can be construed as a straw man does it mean that there is no qanon equivalent on the left? Because in the recent case with Shannon Brandt running over a teenager just reeks pizzagate levels of insanity.

"Trump is a Russian asset"? On parts of the right, this is sometimes called "Blue-Anon."

Whether it's correct or not, "Trump is a Russian asset" is far less crazy as a conspiracy theory than QAnon, as a whole. Imagining that a politician/businessman/public figure might be secretly in cahoots with a foreign country through blackmail or some other means is not an insane idea in itself, there have been plenty of such figures throughout world history. The QAnon metanarrative contains a huge number of intricate pieces and fantastical, improbable parts that would need to be true for the entire worldview to be true, not to forget that it involved a large number of specific date-based predictions on unprecedented events that didn't come to pass.

I disagree. "Trump is a Russian asset" is facially ludicrous given both his history and policies. "Sometimes public figures get blackmailed" is a very far cry from the specifics of Blue-Anon and the Steele Dossier. Similarly, the very broad strokes of QAnon bears a passing resemblance to Epstein's island and the Lolita Express, even though the details don't match. Blue-Anon was certainly more widely believed and higher status than QAnon, but it was no less crazy for all that.

It’s not just noticing that there are more white males in positions of power, it’s positing this was done through malice and oppression. This is the mainstream view as well.

Name me literally a single person who has ever advocated the first theory. I’ll wait.

When you misrepresent and distort the views of your outgroup beyond recognition, it’s very easy to call them insane.

Lotta post SJW types essentialize white dudes as a whole into some sort of malicious entity; when they are just the current hegemonic class.

There is nothing uniquely bad about white people or white men.

I mean, look, you’re talking to a white identitarian, so obviously I’m in vociferous agreement that there’s nothing wrong with white men. However, I think you have at best a surface-level grasp of what serious leftists actually mean when they talk about “systemic white supremacy”. It’s far more sophisticated than a simple attribution of malice to white men.

Yup. I know, because it's the position I hold: That groups who have historically held positions of influence have a tendency to act so as to benefit their own group, and that this urge is completely rational and ethical (on the level of the individual).

This extends up the chain of associations: given a chance, you will help your direct family, then extended family, then your group associations (Eg, I've gotten 10k+ in money for jobs over other equally skilled dudes because I play at the same gamestore as a client.)

There is nothing wrong with this, on the individual level. Eg, imagine two platonic applicants for a job are equally talented in all regards, except one of them went to your alma mater. There is nothing wrong with giving them the job.

Then you do this for 200 years, and you have a ruling class. Of course people who aren't in the ruling class are going to attempt to level out those advantages; they would be stupid not to. You can have opinions on the ethics of it all on top of that, of course, but the core is all practical.

It be how it be. Your ancestors fought against the romans for status, then they fought against the nobility, and now people are fighting the putative oligarchs. When someone eventually casts down the current group in pole position , someone will start fighting them, on into history until we get turned into paperclips or the sun explodes.

I dont think they were saying, "The Right thinks the Left believes in a secret masonic lodge" or "The Left believes in a secret masonic lodge" or anything like that.

They were saying that "QAnon is insanity" and "White Patriarchy is not insanity," and then described a hypothetical world in which White Patriarchy was insanity.

It's probably not hard to find a QAnon true believer that professes a cabal of elites that make literal sacrifice (which is Insanity)

Yes the white patriarchy conspiracy theory is more mainstream. It is the prevailing conspiracy that rules currently in the western world. But it is still a conspiracy theory, it hasn't any more claim on being a true reflection of reality than QAnon. A conspiracy theory doesn't become less of a conspiracy theory when more people believe it.

A conspiracy theory doesn't become less of a conspiracy theory when more people believe it.

Right but I don't think it's fair to characterise it "at the fringes" once it's reached ruling status. Far left, sure, but fringe implies a certain lack of critical mass, does it not?

It is only the extremes that have the belief of big systems with delibirate coordination to surpress the truth. Those closer to the center it myths and half-truths that previal but not the full blown conspiracy world view that everything evil is deliberate machinations by group of people.

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