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Can you date folks with different politics?
I watch this stream yesterday and i find it quite interesting. Im actually kinda in this situation now, i took a girl on a date, she made it obvious she was a progressive. I often dont share my own views on these things in real life, due to how toxic these conversations can be, so i just try to listen and empathize with where the person is coming from. Though im planning to open my mouth a little more about things on the 2nd go round, as to not give a misleading representation of who i am.
Whats interesting is that the streamer in question distinct "politics" from "human rights", she gives a pretty weak example with Roe V Wade. However i think the distinction between "politics" and "human rights" is shaky to begin with. No one really agrees on what human rights even are, per her roe example, gun control (constitutional arguably, but still) being another one, & there are still societies/people that arent accepting of LGBT although thats been on the decline over some decades. My guess is she is taking this to mean, "you probably shouldnt date a nazi", which is perfectly fine. But there arent a lot of those guys around in this day and age. For myself, i dont really believe any idea is above criticism, so i dont see how having a different idea of what constitutes human rights is much different from just having different politics.
According to pew research, most people, (myself included) are fine with dating people across the political aisle {note that many people wouldnt date a trump voter, but many would date a republican, but i suspect many people might view trump as a fundamentally immoral individual, and thus that makes him distinct from just mere disagreement}. I also find that peoples political beliefs arent good measures of how moral they are in real life. There are many progressives ive seen who were cheaters, liars, lazy, ect & conservatives who were kind hearted, hard working, & loving ect (& vice versa). But i want to know what you guys think.
I can date someone with different politics as long as their metapolitics are, like mine, geared for cooperation rather than instant defection/conflict. This usually implies they're not too invested in politics in the abstract.
I don't think I would want to date someone who was too politically involved in trying to achieve political changes at levels that are obviously beyond their control.
That is, self-described 'activists' are right out. If they want to show up to a protest and hold a sign I guess that's okay, but devoting substantial time and effort trying to shift political outcomes is where I would draw the line.
So I can most likely tolerate somebody that I differ with politically, as long as we're generally in agreement that National/Federal Politics are a farce and any attempts by us as individuals to influence them are pointless, AND we generally align on the issues that are local enough to effect things we can control.
She could hate Donald Trump and I could think he's alright, as long as both of us know that Donald Trump has very little actual impact on our lives.
In practice, the type of person who even has strong feelings about Donald Trump is also likely to be the type who is overly obsessed with national politics. So having a position on Trump that you're willing to fight over is, itself, grounds for me to back out of any further entanglement. It can be fun to debate about the guy in the abstract, and come to differing opinions, but the second you start taking it too seriously is the second you're too invested in a question that has no importance for your life.
I don't think this is even me taking an 'eNLighTenED CenTriSM' position. I'm literally just looking for someone who isn't so invested in political fights that have no bearing on the relationship we share or our immediate living situation that they don't have energy to spare for the relationship and for the fights that do matter.
Then there's the nuanced positions. Somebody can be vehemently pro-choice and I could be in a relationship with them despite me leaning pro-life, but it would have to be understood that I do want to be consulted on matters pertaining to childbirth within the relationship, as long as she understands that I'd never hold a gun to her head and force her to carry a fetus to term.
Again, I assume people capable of exercising such nuance exist, but they sure ain't as obvious.
Obviously you know yourself better than I can, but this specific position strikes me as dangerous. An unexpected pregnancy can be stressful and values-clarifying in ways that are difficult to anticipate. I would not be at all shocked by one or the other of the two people in the hypothetical relationship you describe radically changing position when confronted with the real, immediate situation (she decides "you get no say, period," or you decide "abortion is a dealbreaker, do it and I'm out," for instance). I'm not even suggesting bad faith! Just that a truly accidental bait and switch can happen, and abortion is the perfect storm for that type of accident.
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I feel a lot of empathy for this point of view and I almost agree, but there are at the same time some implications in your comment that are truly horrifying.
The notion that any degree of actual attempt at political involvement is an actively bad thing is one that is acutely poisonous to democratic society at large, in addition to being morally repulsive to me. What happened to civic duty and responsibility? Meaningfully participating in communities more broadly? I’m not sure you can simply separate “oh, this is a local issue” and “oh, this is a national issue I am powerless about”. People drastically undersell the network effects of sharing their own opinion, let alone actually volunteering for a candidate. While it’s true a lot of people find themselves in an endless cycle of outrage and fear, egged on by the national media and political cycles, it’s also seems to be true that the antidote is the moderating influence of interpersonal discussion. It’s not a catalyst for more outrage, it’s a set of social brakes.
Perhaps this is an inaccurate read of your comment but my first impression was definitely one preaching political inactivity as a virtue, which it is not.
Your interpretation is a bit of an exaggeration of what I'm saying, but not completely off base.
Civic duty to whom? Which group? And how much of that duty can I expect will be reciprocated? At the national level... not much. Most people can't 'meaningfully participate' in a national 'community' in the U.S. because its just too big for them to have any noticeable, appreciable effect, and it's dominated by insiders!
There are certainly those who are good at making people feel like they had such an effect, though! But this reads to me as exploitation.
I'm not suggesting political apathy is the best path (okay, being honest, for many, many people it might be!). Only that much political activity is essentially throwing one's time, effort, and money into a machine that will only occasionally spit out a return on the investment, and usually it will be less than you put in, so one should be judicious about how much they insert.
And in the most heavily contested elections its all a red Queen's race/Molochian spiral, the more money and effort one candidate throws in, the more the other has to throw in attempting to counter, yet the outcome needle will barely move to the extent their efforts cancel out. That's a lot of resources being burned for effectively no gain!
Speaking of cancelling out, one thing I keep coming back to is how overhyped voting is, for any national-level position, because you can spend hours of time becoming informed about the issues and candidates and determining the 'optimal' vote to cast for your preferred outcome... only to be cancelled out by some yahoo that either doesn't investigate the issues or just listened to a pundit and chose that way. It makes more sense to find someone else who would vote opposite you and both agree to stay home for all the impact you have on the outcome.
Note that I make the exception for local elections and issues where the chances of you casting a deciding vote are substantially increased.
EVEN THEN, the marginal returns on getting heavily involved and actively contributing substantial funds and time to campaigns are TINY for any person who doesn't happen to have outsized influence in a given community. i.e. a celebrity or other 'elite' member that others look to for guidance.
And by definition, it is impossible for everyone to have an outsized influence.
In short, it's a power law distribution. 80+% of the outcome is attributable to <20% of the people's efforts. My attempts to sway opinions will be far less impactful than a political pundit with 100k+ listeners will be. Does this mean I don't attempt to sway opinions? Nah. In fact, I just put in targetted efforts towards the few people I'm most likely to be able to sway (my own family, generally speaking) and don't bother much beyond that.
If you consider that becoming more politically active is likely to cause you to lose friends and connections you might have otherwise maintained, then it is entirely possible for political activity to produce a significant and consistent negative return for you!
SO:
Explain to me how my life will become happier and more fulfilled or I'll become wealthier and more influential by becoming way more politically involved (read: devote more than an average of 5 hours/week to political causes and campaigns).
Further, explain how dating someone who is heavily politically involved will make my life happier or more fulfilled, even assuming they agree with me on object-level politics.
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