site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 6, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

In last week’s thread there was extensive discussion on the retirement home employee shortage in the US. It made me ask myself: is it fair to say that elderly care in the US and Western countries in general is based on the unstated rule that you as a frail and elderly person pretty much only deserve to have a quality of life worth a damn if you have loving, caring children and grandchildren living nearby, visiting you regularly and looking after you if needed? That is, whatever system of care that is set up is not designed and should not be designed to basically prop you up and coddle you otherwise? It may sound cynical or too far-fetched to say it out loud, but looking at this issue from the outside, it’d explain many things. I imagine this is a general rule most Boomers also take as given, as they grew up in an age when childlessness and family dissolution/dislocation was much less normal than today.

rule that you as a frail and elderly person pretty much only deserve to have a quality of life worth a damn

Outside of individuals who should be sentenced to life in prison, is there anyone not entitled to an upper-middle-class life, regardless of their life choices?

You need to define what "worth a damn" means. I haven't compiled what I usually see from leftists regarding what the elderly are entitled to, but once listed out, I'm guessing it's an upper-middle-class standard if you want to live in flyover country or a wealthy one if you want to live in an Alpha++ city.

For younger people, I see:

  • Unlimited world-class healthcare.
  • At least 40 hours of childcare per week.
  • No more than two children per bedroom, and older children should not have to share a room for as many children as you can have.
  • A safe, walkable neighborhood within biking distance of the downtown core.
  • A workweek of less than 40 hours, although I observe that this number is constantly decreasing. Let's be honest, jobs are optional because means testing is not allowed.
  • If you do want a job, then more than 6 weeks of paid vacation.
  • At least 3 months of paid parental leave (I've seen people advocating for a year).
  • If you do need a vehicle, it should not be a beater.
  • High-speed internet.
  • A smartphone.
  • Free college (should any education be paid for out of pocket?)

Considering that jobs are optional, it seems that everyone is entitled to the life of a trust fund kid.

This is caused by the transition from the left being the party of workers against bosses, to being the party of students against workers.

The western college experience is that you move out of your parents house to a 1-star resort where your immediate needs have no short term sticker price, and you can get a stipend to live off of. This is treated as an entitlement by the people doing it and it’s perfectly reasonable on an individual/class level to advocate for the thing to which you’re already entitled to become higher quality/bigger. And it’s also perfectly reasonable to lobby for the entitlement to not end.

I don’t know what the solution is, but it’s obviously wrong.

Workers in my experience both as a union member and rep are quite fond of not having to pay for healthcare, having more vacation, childcare availability, time to spend with their kids, adequate pay for better housing and lifestyle, shorter hours, and getting free education. They fight quite hard to try and get such benefits in their contracts. Go back to before the majority of the populace went to college and you'll still find social democratic, labor and socialist parties with such demands in their party platforms.