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PaperclipPerfector  6mo ago (text post)   27138 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 6, 2023

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MSNBC reports:

Man dies after hitting head during Israel and Palestinian rallies in California, officials say. Witnesses said Paul Kessler fell and struck his head during a confrontation with protesters Sunday in Ventura County, the sheriff's department said. He died Monday.

Authorities in Ventura County, California, are investigating the death of a Jewish man who was injured during a confrontation at dueling rallies over Israel and Gaza died Monday, the sheriff’s department said. Witnesses said Paul Kessler, 69, "was in a physical altercation with counter-protestor(s)," the Ventura County Sheriff’s Department said in a statement. "During the altercation, Kessler fell backwards and struck his head on the ground,” it said.

What a horrible freak acci-

Paul Kessler, 69, died at a hospital on Monday, a day after he was struck during pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian demonstrations at an intersection in Thousand Oaks, a suburb northwest of Los Angeles, authorities said.

Witnesses said Kessler was involved in a “physical altercation” with one or more counter-protesters, fell backward and struck his head on the ground, according to a statement from the Ventura County Sheriff’s Department. An autopsy Monday said Kessler died from a blunt force head injury and it was homicide, according to the Sheriff’s Department, which said investigators hadn’t ruled out the possibility that the act was a hate crime.

Well, it's unfortunate and tragic to have a real-world example of the eggshell skull rule, but (ed: cw, video of a man dying)-

A witness to the pro-Palestine protest that led to the death of Jewish man Paul Kessler today railed against local police for not arresting the man Kessler argued with - as new video shows the protest continued on even after police arrived at the scene... Witnesses say he and an as-yet unnamed Palestine supporter started arguing, and that it led to the man hitting Kessler in the face with his megaphone.

A police officer is seen on video asking an unidentified man, who is unconfirmed if this is the suspect, 'So you tried to hit his phone?' With law enforcement in the background, protesters are heard chanting, 'You will burn in hell; Israel will burn in hell.'

Another anti-Semitic chant can be heard, 'Hitler didn't want you, Hitler didn't want you, Hitler didn't want you, Hitler should've smashed you.'

Oh.

Nor does the potential for things to get out of hand seem like it was a surprise (ed: cw, video of a man dying):

The man holding the flag in the photo above allegedly lifted up his shirt to show that he had a pistol in his waistband during the October 29 protest at the same corner (Thousand Oaks Boulevard and Westlake Boulevard, just north of the 101 Freeway). Police were called to the scene, but the man left before they arrived.

It's still possible that Kessler's death had some complications, if extraordinarily unlikely. This is Ventura County rather than LA proper, so I think there's at least a chance that genuine prosecution could happen should the death be clear manslaughter or negligent homicide. The suspect has at least been stopped and questioned and is supposedly cooperating, though the amazing lack of any video of the 'confrontation' itself seems to be a complicating factor.

There's no outrage from the conventional sources, or the Biden or White House twitter accounts. There's nothing from the various ACLUs; quite a lot of people who I respected and had strong feelings on political radicalization must not have heard of it. The communities that spent a lot of time hunting down fascists and Nazis to punch and dox don't seem particularly interested by literal invocations of Hitler. And the lack of any arrest despite a clear suspect makes a bit of a mockery of all the people who in the Rittenhouse era proclaimed that any death required a prosecution and a trial. I guess to their credit (if damning with faint praise), the ADL has posted.

I've written at length about the extent and efforts pushing speech and speakers out of the public square have gone, and it's difficult to see this outside of that context. Worse, the lack of backlash seems a justification and legitimization of that behavior.

Which seems noteworthy in a few ways. There's no shortage of right-wing or Red Tribe examples, but Kessler, notably, was not. I'm not a fan of perspectives where only the cleanest hands make acceptable figures to bring forward -- to borrow from Mencken, defending freedom sometimes means defending scoundrels -- but I'll spell out when even that does not seem to be enough. It's not about X as a principle goes to this.

And at a deeper level... @FCfromSSC did a very good tactical analysis of the situation around violence at public protests in the context of the De Oñate Statue shooting. I don't want to extrapolate too hard from this case yet because it could end in a hard conviction next month. But it's looking, if anything, too rosy.

As a guy with most of a medical degree: falling and hitting your head on concrete can be a motherfucker. Results are a crapshoot and can be anything from a mild concussion to death. I saw a young, fit teenager that very nearly died and will be crippled for life with brain injury...because he fainted and fell off a step that was a foot and a half high. Plenty of manslaughter cases come from fistfights that take place in parking lots; one man knocks the other out and the loser falls, hits his head on the pavement, and dies. I think that this guy was KO'd by the thrown megaphone, hit his head on the concrete, and was mortally injured.

Wait, you're studying to be a doctor, and you still can't get laid? wth?

It's not terribly uncommon here in America; I know...let's see, three medical students or residents that have lots of trouble getting dates or have never had girlfriends. At my (decent, US) medical school, it's very interesting indeed how the short guys in my class and the short interns are focused on their careers while the average and tall ones have girlfriends.

Now, I don't think there is anything all that bad about this state of affairs. It may be that society needs a niche of celibate dudes for life paths that don't mesh well with marriage and children, and 'choose said guys by lot based on height' doesn't seem that bad. Consider things like the draft lottery. Also, the short guys that do get married or get into relationships with women that aren't morbidly obese or literally batshit crazy are a testament to the strength of the human spirit, etc...I've seen it done. Once. The man in question is going to be a literal brain surgeon and is the most charismatic person in our class; we think he could have a good career in politics. Your 5'4" family medicine resident or even a pint-size Navy SEAL ain't up to snuff. Such is life - there is nothing terribly wrong with the fact that short men must be remarkable, accept lifelong celibacy, or decide where they want the ambulances.

Uh, if becoming a doctor will attract women(and I have no doubt that this is true; I’d be more surprised if it wasn’t) then why are you bothering with ‘the hock’ to try to get a date instead of just waiting however many years?

Because he's crazy. Not in a neat DSM-5 way with a legible diagnosis, just a surfeit of common sense and an excess of self-loathing. There's no pill for that I'm aware of.

Because I'd basically be a mark for a gold digger at that point; I don't necessarily know if I can improve on that by going on the Hock, but 'survived being chucked into the Alaskan wilderness in winter' definitely seems to on the surface fulfill the 'become remarkable' criterion. I'd like to make it very clear that this does not guarantee success any more than lining up at the starting line of a local 5K means you're going to win. It's a generally necessary but by no means sufficient condition.

So too, there would still be the 'hypocrisy' element; I believe that my subpar physical appearance and autism make me more or less disgusting for potential partners and I'd still be autistic and bald as a doctor. So I'd be asking my partner to do something I wasn't willing or able to do myself: endure pointless suffering. Making some autistic ugly-ish doctor happy through enduring pointless suffering day after day (from being with someone you consider gross) isn't a sacrifice that I'm currently worthy of. "Having a shit ton of determination and being willing to endure Hell on Earth for no goddamn reason" seems to be a building block of being worthy of that kind of sacrifice, if anyone truly is.

I know one bald, short and autistic doctor personally, and the only reason he's not dateable is because he's physically deformed and also schizophrenic (yet another case I personally diagnosed as a med student and had ratified later, you'd think someone would notice since both of them had doctor parents).

You're salvageable. There are almost certainly anatomically and mentally normal women who would happily date you if you keep working out and dress decently, especially since you'll be a doctor unless the Hock kills you.

There are almost certainly anatomically and mentally normal women who would happily date you if you keep working out and dress decently, especially since you'll be a doctor unless the Hock kills you.

Yes, I am well aware that there are desperately poor women in Cambodia or Thailand or hell, rural India who would date a man they are deeply and viscerally disgusted by in order to pull themselves and their families out of crushing Third World poverty. This is one hell of a sacrifice, I admire the hell out of that kind of resolve, and I don't think I'm worthy of it. I've met maybe a handful of people that are...maybe one percent of the population? Two? I'd sure as hell say that most of the people reading this ain't worthy of that, even though I think most people here are fine people and decent human beings.

What’s so bad about a gold digger? You want female companionship, she wants a nice life, pick someone smart enough to have reasonable desires and know that divorce isn’t a massive payday(it rarely is and you’re not exactly a billionaire where even a chump change settlement is life changing money, I’d assume), you’ll both bond and make the most of the situation. As I understand it the median woman considers a husband who puts effort in and values her much more of a catch than one who is conventionally attractive and funny; it seems like that’s well within your power.

The issue with gold-diggers is the fact that they're likely to leave you when you're no longer gold. You might fall sick, or lose your job, and then she's off to the next one.

It's hardly a binary notion, women are in general attracted to wealth and status after all, which I don't find reprehensible in the least, but in my eyes, a wife should be willing to stick with you through thick and thin.

This isn't to say a woman who's with you for the money is a bad alternative to being single, but not only is Skook OD-ing on blackpills, I sincerely doubt he's so far gone that he can't land a woman we wouldn't call a gold digger.

While he might be short and (terminally) autistic, I think once he's a practising doctor he'll have plenty of above average looking nurses drawn to him, and while they might like the money or status, that doesn't necessarily mean them hoes ain't loyal. Besides, he says he works out, so it has to count for something doesn't it?

Worst case is a mail order bride, plus a solid pre-nup, though he should get one anyway.

Now, to put a mild spanner in the works, I wouldn't bet on him finishing his residency and them becoming a casual millionaire in less than a decade that is the norm for an American doctor, for the same reason I'm unlikely to be a consultant psychiatrist, AI is going to make us effectively obsolete in like 5 years max, maybe a few more years accounting for regulatory inertia.

But she won't know that! And by the time it's obvious, everyone else is fucked too ❤️

but not only is Skook OD-ing on blackpills

That is precisely what I’m trying to talk him out of before he gets himself killed wandering around in rural northern Alaska.

The plot just keeps thickening on The Motte, from all quarters it seems.

This has been Motte Lore for a while. For what it’s worth, I agree with Mr Hock, I wouldn’t necessarily want to be the guy for whom an MD was the primary differentiator between whether a woman would date me or not. Not that I think Skookum’s celibacy is necessarily involuntary, I just don’t think his argument is complete bullshit. I’m curious to see what he considers his female equivalent, and if he’d date her.

Only recently have I begun to pay attention to what username goes with whom. I knew a few back on the Reddit days but I don't feel like I see many of them here. Or maybe I forgot or wasn't as attentive as I should've been. It's easy to forget Mottizens aren't just idiosyncratic chatbots but real people--but where, of what age, and sometimes even male or female I often have no idea.

Re: Skookum I am not always clear on what his argument is, other than he has a rather burning self-hatred, finds himself physically repulsive, and projects that self-image in such a way that he assumes women feel the exact same about him (visceral loathing). Also apparently he has seen, heard about in his own social circle, or somehow internalized the idea that women are homicidal and one of them might kill him at some point for something he inadvertently does. Or that he will be somehow attacked for showing interest in a woman. Or whatever. And finally, that an act of MegaChad adventure bravery (The Hock) will be the redemptive quest that will make him into...something better than what he feels that he currently is. (Instead of the suicidal misadventure of a man with an all-but-clearly stated deathwish, which is how I see it.) (Please correct any of this if you like, @SkookumTree, I don't want to misrepresent you.)

As far as whether or not having a med degree is social pheromone, I wouldn't doubt it. I guess there are physicians who agonize over whether women are into them "just for their MD" but I don't think I'd care so much--there's always something that flips a woman's switch (or nothing that does), and while sometimes it makes sense (tall, wealthy, deep blue eyes, muscular, clean fingernails, whatever), sometimes I think it's more random. I found this post recently by @raggedy_anthem insightful, even if it doesn't really provide any clear path for those seeking one.

I have just discovered "SkookumTree" apparently means "brave tree" in Chinook jargon, which was interesting--I'd thought it was just a weird-sounding word.

I am not always clear on what his argument is, other than he has a rather burning self-hatred, finds himself physically repulsive, and projects that self-image in such a way that he assumes women feel the exact same about him (visceral loathing).

Most of the repulsion's not physical, although my decidedly below average physical appearance doesn't do me any favors. I'm no Quasimodo, which I'll admit to here.

Also apparently he has seen, heard about in his own social circle, or somehow internalized the idea that women are homicidal and one of them might kill him at some point for something he inadvertently does. Or that he will be somehow attacked for showing interest in a woman. Or whatever. And finally, that an act of MegaChad adventure bravery (The Hock) will be the redemptive quest that will make him into...something better than what he feels that he currently is. (Instead of the suicidal misadventure of a man with an all-but-clearly stated deathwish, which is how I see it.

This guy put it better than I could have done myself.

More comments

This has been Motte Lore for a while.

I get the appeal of old forum culture now, even if by the time I had reliable internet access Reddit was already slaughtering them. There's a charm in having familiar faces and in-jokes within a community that isn't so large everyone becomes interchangeable and anonymous, even it they're using pseudonyms.

I've seen several accounts of men in this position who didn't receive any interest until they got their MD at which point it was fish in a barrel.

That aligns with my personal experience in India, to an extent after adjusting for the nebbishness of the guys and the lower levels of sexual activity in general.

The majority of my male classmates made it through the course without touching poon outside a cadaver or a female volunteer in the ward, while I think at least half of them still haven't gotten laid, at the very least they know they're not going to remain unmarried if they want.

Goes to show most people can't think ahead, an American med student is the perfect blend of high potential value that's grossly underrated, once they're done with their residency they'll be millionaires in a few years. Catch them before the competition heats up and they know their worth I say.

@SkookumTree hey wanna marry me? I could use the naturalization, and if you're that terminally horny and alone, any hole's a goal right? At the very least I'll give you 1:1 rizz classes 🙏

For my MD-holding short friends that are still residents and not attending physicians: sure. Fish in a barrel...a very large barrel the size of an Olympic swimming pool, with a BB gun to shoot at them with. Water's murky, too.

How short are you

5'6"

I think he's said he's 5'5 or 5'6, which while in extremely inconvenient territory, still isn't outright dwarfism.

At the very least there are plenty of tiny Asian women who wouldn't consider that a deal breaker when all the other practical considerations exist.

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