site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 18, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Given that "UFO" simply means "Unidentified Flying Object" and not "alien spacecraft" it makes sense that major governments would investigate them. Not because of aliens, but because UFOs most likely mean "advanced aerospace tech made by our enemies that we want to know more about."

or "dammit, someone recorded out advanced aerospace tech, lets ensure they think it is aliens rather than something relevant to national security"

If I would be responsible for taking care that super-advanced-plane is secret I would prefer than anyone who managed observe it is talking about alien kidnappings. Maybe even drop them some obviously fake documents about aliens captured by NSA or something.

That's basically the plot of an episode of the X-Files. Mulder swaps bodies with a guy whose job it is to make up alien and other conspiracy theories to distract from advanced military tech.

That's basically the plot of an episode of the X-Files.

That's basically recent history, declassified and documented by respectable mainstream media.

“There might be a number of reasons for a coverup,” Mark Pilkington, author of Mirage Men: A journey into disinformation, paranoia and UFOs, told me. “They might be covering up secret advanced aircraft such as the U-2 and SR-71, and no doubt other things.”

For example, the forerunners of the U-2 high-altitude spy plane, developed for the CIA by the Air Force, caused similar confusion when they flew from Groom Lake (the celebrated Area 51) in the mid-1950s. These aircraft had a silver finish, and at 60,000 feet – far above other aircraft of the time – the U-2 looked like a bright metallic blob and was repeatedly reported as a flying saucer. A similar situation arose with the SR-71 Blackbird, which, at Mach 3, was far too fast and too high to be any known aircraft and was assumed to be Something Else. Some 50% of U.S.UFO reports at the time might have been caused by sightings of these two aircraft.

The Truth Behind UFO Sightings and the U.S. Air Force

How long has this been going on?

Much of it dates to the first flights of the U2 spy plane back in the 1950s. The CIA's in-house journal had a story about 10 years ago that said that one of the functions of Project Blue Book [the official Air Force investigation into UFOs] was to monitor how visible the U2 was to people on the ground. Someone would see what they thought was a UFO and then the Air Force would send someone around to talk with them. Of course, the Air Force would have a schedule of the U2 flights and be able to tell if what the person saw was indeed a U2. By talking to all these supposed UFO witnesses, the CIA could assess how visible the U2 was.

COLD WAR UFO COVERUP SHIELDED SPY PLANES

For decades, a cottage industry of UFO buffs has thrived on the belief that the U.S. government covered up crucial information about mysterious flying objects.

Turns out that in thousands of cases the suspicions were right, a CIA historian has documented for the first time.

At the height of the Cold War, the Air Force and CIA willfully misled the public by claiming that thousands of sightings of unidentified flying objects were caused by ice crystals, temperature inversions and other tricks of nature, when in fact they were produced by the flight of high-flying, super-secret spy planes, according to historian Gerald K. Haines.

A study by Haines published this spring in the declassified version of Studies of Intelligence, a secret CIA journal, found that the government concocted the explanations both to calm fears about UFOs and to maintain secrecy about its most advanced espionage aircraft at the time, the U-2 and the SR-71 Blackbird.

The article concludes that "over half of all U.F.O." sightings in the United States during the 1950s and 1960s "were accounted for by manned reconnaissance flights."

That doesn't quite work, since in the show aliens do exist, and the advanced military tech may have very well come from them.

Well the series was never particularly consistent about it's lore/mythology, as much as I love it

Maybe even drop them some obviously fake documents about aliens captured by NSA or something.

Worth pointing out for the record that something that seems to be exactly this has in fact happened. At least twice.

Yes, absolutely, although I would expect such work to be integrated into the typical air defense network or bumped into a classified program (which might dovetail into all the rumors about SECRET UFO PROGRAMS – yes probably we don't want our enemies to know what we do and don't know about their classified programs). Setting up a public-facing program like BlueBook or Geipan makes more sense as a PR effort than a secret project to spy on enemy spy craft, and I think is a more parsimonious explanation, especially considering that, despite contemporary concerns, there almost certainly weren't Soviet spy aircraft buzzing our nuclear installations in the late 1940s but there were enough UFO reports that defense officials worried they would overwhelm defense channels.

If you follow the link-trail I threw out, though, you can see DNI Ratcliffe alleging that there are objects that

  1. Don't fit the profile of "advanced aerospace tech made by our enemies that we want to know more about," and
  2. are picked up on multiple sensors, including satellites, at the same time, which is interesting in the context of long-running rumors US satellites have detected objects entering the atmosphere from outer space.

We know, from declassified NRO documents, that the NRO's satellites have detected at least one small object that "did not match the visual signature of typical aircraft detections" and seemed to resemble the "tic-tac" UAP (although alternative possibilities are discussed and the sighting is considered "low confidence") and that the NRO's "Sentient" image processing software may have a "UAP detection" mode.

I don't think anyone should consider that a slam dunk for extraterrestrial life but I do think it's noteworthy that the intelligence community appears to have internal conversations around things like "can we use our image analysis program to look for UAPs."