site banner
PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   26101 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 25, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

8
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Eliminating property taxes. Texas property taxes are legitimately too high and have to be brought under some sort of control(and the GOP primary electorate are very heavily homeowners); this proposition is probably going to pass at like 99/1. What the legislature actually does with it is unclear, but I'd expect a stricter regulation on raising property appraisals(although nothing like california's prop 13; there are enough technocrats in the legislature to avoid something so stupid) coupled with a buydown of rates.

What's the alternative? Taxing income is way worse, that's actual productive activity being taxed. Sales tax (Fairtax style) is cool but voters hate it.

Any attempts to lighten the property tax load are inevitably going to be similar to prop 13. The legislature is unable to enact a law without a million carveouts. What you get is going to be way different from "we gotta keep grandma in her house".

Developing property is also productive activity.

You don't have to develop shit to own property. I've seen places for rent in my neighborhood where the landlord hasn't even vented the dryer to the outside of the house. Not even mentioning the empty lots, empty condos, and historic laundromats.

Isn't that evidence against the idea that property taxes don't reduce economic activity? Also, those properties are still developed and their owners are paying higher taxes than they would if they were not.

Isn't that evidence against the idea that property taxes don't reduce economic activity?

Why?

Also, those properties are still developed and their owners are paying higher taxes than they would if they were not.

The house was built in the late sixties. The current owner bought it ten years ago. They're not developing a thing.

Property taxes existed in the 60s. Anyone thinking of developing the property back then would have considered future property taxes in their decision to develop the property. The fact that a given property seems underdeveloped suggests that property taxes have been suppressing development.

The landlord seeks to maximize profit. There's no reason to do anything to the property that won't pay for itself in increased rent. Thought experiment: do you think a landlord would upgrade the property if they got a fat government check? Hell no, pocket the check, that's pure profit right there.

Your property tax is proportional to the value of the property, such that if you develop it further, you increase the tax. If the government subsidized properties based on their value, landlords absolutely would upgrade them.

Venting the dryer isn't increasing your property value.

hasn't even vented the dryer to the outside of the house

While what you're describing is probably a cheap, incorrect (and probably both damaging and against code) way to install a dryer, there are "condensing" dryer models out there that don't require vents.

While what you're describing is probably a cheap, incorrect (and probably both damaging and against code) way to install a dryer, there are "condensing" dryer models out there that don't require vents.

And are the default in the UK (and, as far as I am aware, most European countries), where the tumble dryer is typically being installed in an old house (either semi-detached or terraced) with no expectation that there is a conveniently placed outside wall to run a vent through. They don't work very well.

Technically true, but the dryers installed in those units are not such dryers.

I don't see it as likely, but a Georgist modification to the existing property tax system could be interesting: adjust the relative rates on land value and improvement value in a potentially revenue-neutral fashion.

Texas has a big surplus and in theory can reduce the property tax burden by spending it on paying school districts(over 50% of a typical property tax bill) to reduce their taxes. In practice this probably requires coercive measures against the districts to actually work, and that's politically unpopular. Current law only allows a 10% annual increase in tax appraisals; this could easily be reduced without prop 13- and anyways, the worst part of prop 13 was that additions or sales got the entire building reappraised under current market value, under Texas homestead law that doesn't apply; the most an addition could be taxed at would be the market value of the addition plus 110% of the previous year's tax appraisal, which doesn't brutally punish expansions the same way, and sales still have a cap on appraisal increases.

Texas's revenue workhorse is the state sales tax; property taxes are entirely local and mostly levied by school districts(which spend money like drunken sailors anyways, cutting revenue to them might be unpopular, but it won't necessarily have bad effects).

Disagree, the worst thing about prop 13 is that it applies to commercial properties, rental properties, secondary properties, you name it. I know a few boomers who own California condos for decades and have them sit empty because they are simply paying pennies in taxes and it just doesn't matter. It's an enormous transfer of wealth to the landowning class.

Edit: and now that Texas is full of Californians you should expect Californian policies.

That part is simply not going to happen here; landlords are expected to pay market rate for taxes and there’s potential for idiotic homestead exemption shenanigans, but the homestead exemption is strictly limited to owner occupiers.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats