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One of the less stupid notions to come out of LessWrong was the idea of making one's beliefs "pay rent"
The fundamental problem with HBD as it is typically advocated by dissident progressives and users here on theMotte is that if the hypothesis is correct (and that is a big "IF") the actual benefit/utility to adopting "HBD Awareness" over some flavor of "colorblind meritocracy" will be less than zero. Accordingly I feel that it only appropriate to question why certain individuals/users seem to be so invested in their opposition to "blank slatism". I have my theories but none that are likely to be considered "charitable" or "kind" by the mod team.
Not mod-hatted, but borderline, because you're annoying me.
I modded Incanto below because "Shut up, I'm sick of you" is not a good response to someone who's being tiresome on a subject. But you really are being tiresome, and not because I disagree with you, but because it really looks like every time something even vaguely related to HBD comes up, you have to post some little jab that is clearly meant to provoke the HBDers on the Motte into going after you. Does this give you a smug sense of validation, or are you just spoiling for a fight? I don't know, but it's tiresome.
"One of the less stupid ideas..." "certain individuals" "I have my theories" - this is all weasel-wording to hide your real message which is "I want to openly display my contempt for you people." And as several people have noted, you do it even in the most tangentially related threads just because you have a hammer and you want to swing it.
As for "I have my theories but none that are likely to be considered "charitable" or "kind" by the mod team."That is "I really want to tell you what I really think of you and display my contempt even more openly, but I know I'd get modded if I did so I am just going to handwave in that direction and expect you to understand I'm insulting you even though I'm not technically allowed to do that." Speak plainly, and if you know "speaking plainly" would get you modded, then either keep it to yourself, or figure out how to express what you want to say in an appropriate manner (it's not like people here don't call each other's ideas stupid and evil every day).
Fine, you want me to speak plainly let us speak plainly.
It's not like @Cimafra, @BurdensomeCount, @Hoffmietser, @SecureSignals, or our old friend Oakland Et Al. have been particularly shy about their motives. Thomas Sowell might not have mentioned HBD directly in Conflict of Visions but it hard not to read his "vision of the anointed" in pretty much everything that gets posted on the topic. Personally, the breaking point/scales falling from my eyes moment was when the Wonderlic "Race Norming" scandal came to light in 2019, and the bulk of the users here defended it. On a dime I saw users (including some who are active in this very thread right now) flip from "the data is obvious and supports our conclusion" to "we must manipulate the data to better reflect the truth". This is what might be called in another forum; "saying the quiet part out loud" and it cuts to the quick as It exposes HBD as a normative belief rather than a descriptive one. An argument over "ought"s rather "are"s.
I know I catch a lot of flak for maintaining that Utilitarianism is a stupid and evil ideology that is fundamentally incompatible with human flourishing, but I feel that the discourse surrounding the topic here is an apt illustration of the problem. Once you have gone on the record in defense of lying or manipulating data to achieve your preferred policy outcomes, what reason does anyone else have to trust you? Contra the Sequences, information does not exist in a vacuum, and arguments do not spring fully formed from the either. The proles are not stupid. They recognize that the Devil can quote scripture, and that a liar can tell the truth when it suits them. Thus the fundamental question one must always be prepared to ask is not whether a statement is true or false, the question is "Cui Bono?".
Who benefits from Id Pol, HBD Awareness, and Intersectionality? Who benefits from the dismantlement of Anglo/American norms about equality of opportunity and equality before the law? I can tell you who sure as hell doesn't benefit in anyway. Those who possess genuine individual merit.
You, (that is the mod team) have made it clear my dismissal of HBD as a product of Bay-Area rationalists looking to paper over their preexisting racial and class resentments with a thin veneer of "Science!", is uncharitable and unkind and will eventually see me banned and yet if the shoe fits...
I don't see what the race norming scandal had to do with lying. As far as I understand it, it isn't facially unreasonable to estimate the past IQ of black people based on the black population mean instead of the general population mean for paying out injury settlements. I don't at all see how this is manipulating the data to reflect the truth. Especially since it's, like, for an injury settlement.
People who possess merit benefit from HBD awareness because if it succeeds 1) they don't have to keep pretending that they can't see the obvious correlations between race and achievement anywhere and 2) don't have to take 'affirmative action'-style hiring practices to hire supposedly high potential but socially disadvantaged minorities who will in fact perform poorly.
Charitably it might be more "trying to have your cake and eat it too" than "lying", but Hlynka tends to be cynical about his opponents. My example in that vein is a certain type of person suddenly defending the Ivy-League's "holistic" recruitment criteria, when someone points out they primarily discriminate against Asians.
It might have been reasonable when settling the first case, for lack of alternatives. Once it becomes routine, I don't see an excuse for not simply testing each athlete at the start of their career.
It might give off a certain "working backwards from a conclusion vibe". Isn't the proper way to draw conclusions about group differences, to measure and aggregate individual results, rather than to say "this here bloke couldn't have been hurt by all these concussions, he was always a dum-dum, because he comes from a group of dum-dums"?
Except that this is exactly what the NFL had been doing since the 70s. The scandal, that is the behavior that users here were defending, was that the NFL got caught artificially lowering the Wonderlic scores of high-performing blacks "to more correctly reflect the baseline" (whatever that means) and (presumably) minimize disability payments to black players.
In other words, about as clear-cut a case of racial discrimination winning out over colorblind meritocracy as one could ask for. That a significant portion of active HBDers on the Motte came out against standardized testing and defended the NFL's behavior is a dead give-away for which side of the "meritocracy" debate they're really on.
I don't remember that debate on themotte, but I feel like this probably isn't an accurate description how that discussion went? I highly doubt the 'HBDers' were defending 'using a group mean instead of individual scores when the individual scores were easily available'
Wasn't that what you just did a moment ago?
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I wasn't paying attention to the story when it was in the news, or was being discussed here. Thanks for pointing it out.
That's fair, and to be clear I'm not holding this against you, but this is why I describe it as a "scales falling from my eyes moment". I've already eaten a couple warnings and a ban for making comments to the effect of "[User] is a lying liar and here's the thread that proves it." which is why I dance around it now.
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