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PaperclipPerfector  2mo ago (text post)   2503 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for March 8, 2024

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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But because I do not think that we will meet the standard of God's law in this life

I think you are correct for many, if not most Christians. But I also genuinely believe that many of the saints were able to completely cease all inclination to sin in this life. And I believe that for the the rest it happens during Purgation after death.

We do not enter heaven by loving God and our neighbor

100% agreed here, we can only enter heaven by Jesus's sacrifice.

When a sin is forgiven it is forgiven because God forgives it. God does not count the sin on you, yes. Jesus has told visionaries that He can't even remember the sins they've confessed. (Obviously a bit of a metaphor, as God knows everything.)

I think the radical thing Catholics believe, that you disagree with, is that the forgiveness of sins is not itself sufficient for Heaven. (The forgiveness of sins means that a Christian is going to Heaven, but it doesn't mean by itself that the Christian is ready for Heaven.) In order for Heaven to not be a tyranny, the people in it need to have willingly let go of attachments to sin as well. We lose this attachment in this life, little by little, by willfully forming the habit of conforming to God's will. And if there is any attachment to sin left over at the moment of death, it needs to be removed by the cooperation of God and the sinner. (Put out of your head any specific idea of a place of Purgatory. I'm referencing just the idea of purgation, whether that's an instantaneous change or a difficult trial.)

But I also genuinely believe that many of the saints were able to completely cease all inclination to sin in this life.

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

I think the radical thing Catholics believe, that you disagree with, is that the forgiveness of sins is not itself sufficient for Heaven. (The forgiveness of sins means that a Christian is going to Heaven, but it doesn't mean by itself that the Christian is ready for Heaven.)

I agree.

In order for Heaven to not be a tyranny, the people in it need to have willingly let go of attachments to sin as well. We lose this attachment in this life, little by little, by willfully forming the habit of conforming to God's will. And if there is any attachment to sin left over at the moment of death, it needs to be removed by the cooperation of God and the sinner. (Put out of your head any specific idea of a place of Purgatory. I'm referencing just the idea of purgation, whether that's an instantaneous change or a difficult trial.)

I of course agree that our will needs to be transformed and conformed to God's.

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

The saints are very disgusted with their faults, more so than the average sinner. But that verse also does not exclude the possibility of a saint having sinned in the past, but over time has shed the habit of sin. After all, the next verse is "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

You know you guys are splitting hairs over something that to people looking in from a rational outside perspective is all just make-believe. You're arguing over fantasy stories like they are real.

Rationally, you should be seeking out infinites to optimize around, for Pascal's wager-ish reasons, and Christianity seems as likely a one as any.

Anyway, if you have an argument, feel free to make it (once the ban's over), but mere assertions that others are talking about nonsense is unproductive.

Since you got temp banned I’d like to say that I very much enjoy a lot of your posts and strongly encourage you to limit this kind of thing. I’m an atheist too but it’s impolite to drive by with this kind of comment.

Look, you weren't part of this conversation, but you felt a need to drop a shit in the middle of it why?

In a very short period of time, you've established that you're an antagonistic jerk who shits on conversations like it's your hobby.

You're getting a 3-day timeout for this. If you want to continue participating here, stop treating this place like somewhere you go to drunkpost and sneer.

If people can argue over games and Marvel movies, and it is legitimate demand to ask for Representation in fantasy TV shows so as to match up with the real world, then we can argue over religion. Nobody is tying you to a chair and forcing you to read these comments.

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