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Uuh... I feel like I'm being uno-reversoed here. I specifically said I would be in favor of fixing the problem, particularly when it can be done trivially, and you explicitly said that my approach is reasonable. So you cannot I'm characterizing any version of "we need to fix this problem" as "my way or the highway". This cannot be down to a misunderstanding at this point, we've been through this several times. What I am characterizing as "my way or the highway" is your explicit admission that if the trivial solution does not work, you won't think twice about destroying the tinkerers' culture. If you want to make the claim that the utter destruction of it is worth it to get rid of the scourge of default passwords, but you can't claim that you just want a trivial fix, and you'll leave everyone alone.
Because they're not trying to sell themselves as "hey, just implement this trivial fix, and we'll leave you alone". All terminal values are "my way or the highway", but everybody has terminal values of some sort. My complaint with you is that you're acting injured that anyone would portray your values as terminal, when you said you'd destroy innovation and tinkering if other solutions won't work. You sneer at people for suggesting it might go that far, and then happily admit you'd have absolutely no issue of taking it to that point, if that's what it takes.
You write in a vaguely antagonistic shit-posty style, that implicitly asks to be taken with a grain of salt, but when people respond in kind you demand that their stylized arguments be taken deadly serious.
Here, you even responded to it.
My problem here is that if it doesn't work, you explicitly said you won't stop at it.
I don't know what you mean by this. What is "the trivial solution"? I don't have any idea what you mean by it. We've been talking about the entire class of possible solutions that stop billions of devices from being trivially-hackable with default passwords. Which one is "the trivial solution"?
I am not injured in any such way. I explicitly presented the value of stopping the deluge of trivially-hackable devices with default passwords as a terminal value. You're just really off the mark.
I think your link was meant to be this. Frankly, I interpret Nybbler's silence as rejecting your proposal. We can clear this up right quick, though. Hey @The_Nybbler! Arjin says:
Do you think this will destroy the culture, since anyone who wants to make mass-produced end-user consumer goods will be reduced to nothing but checking boxes? Or do you think that he can do this without destroying the culture?
I actually explicitly said that I would consider all possible ideas, and that I was even open to the possibility that all options genuinely have too many demerits to implement. Literally in the comment you were just replying to. Please don't lie about what I've said.
If you regulate mass-produced end-user consumer goods, you will destroy the culture of innovation in that sector, yes. But that's what you want, you've said so yourself; you explicitly want to change the culture of the outgroup you have that consists of software people who refuse to color within the lines.
There you have it, @ArjinFerman. You're a culture-destroyer. You just didn't know it.
I mean, I can hardly blame you, though. It was the only choice you had. Literally if you do anything, Nybbler will think that you're a culture-destroyer. There are only two options: do nothing and have billions of trivially-hackable devices with default passwords... or be a culture-destroyer. That's it. That's the dichotomy.
Again, explain to me, why are you expecting a reasonable response if this is how you interact with people?
Yeah, I don't understand what you're offended by. All we did was check to see if your solution destroys a culture, and we discovered that your solution destroys a culture. Simple as. This is just a straightforward description of what went down.
I'm not offended, I just think your behavior is immature, and it's bizarre you expect a response that is not like-for-like. One of your objections early on in our exchange was:
I don't understand what's wrong with that from your point of view. You love doing that shit yourself, so just let others do it as well.
My position is this:
-I believe that Nybbler's position is that any epsilon regulation would destroy a culture. I think you are coming into agreement with me that this is a reasonable description.
-I also believe that this position is totally hyperbolic. I don't actually think it's true, but it is the claim being made.
-I am not in any way claiming that regulation cannot possibly impact innovation.
Please specify which of the above you disagree with.
Turning now to the merits of your proposal. Now that you have discovered that your proposal will destroy a culture (as determined by Nybbler), are you willing to pursue it? Or is it now a no-go for you?
I disagree with your constant immature behavior. The deliberate exaggeration of your opponent's views even as you do the same the same to them. Accusing others of lying about your views even as you are lying about your own views. I don't particularly like the constant deflections either.
Yes.
What the hell does Nybbler's opinion of my views have to do with my willingness to pursue the solution I proposed?
You are, again, deliberately misrepresenting his views.
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