domain:traditionsofconflict.com
faceh
15m ago
Well broadly if you ask them, they can't find men that meet their standards.
But its broadly women who are passing on men, not the other way around. Which explains both the large number of single women AND the fact that apparently desirable men remain single.
And the fact that half of Gen Z men are just giving up.
And young women are significantly less likely to report being single.
For those that are:
Close to half (45 percent) of college-educated women say not being able to find someone who meets their expectations is a major factor, while only 28 percent of women without a college education feel the same. This education gap is slightly smaller among men. One-third (33 percent) of college-educated men claim not finding someone who meets their standards is a major factor for them, compared to 19 percent of noncollege-educated men.
DESPITE this, young single men report greater interest in dating than young single women:
There is a significant disparity in dating interest between single men and women. Nearly half (47 percent) of single men report being open to dating, compared to only 36 percent of single women. The gender gap in dating is even wider among young singles. More than half (52 percent) of young single men say they are open to dating, compared to only 36 percent of young single women.
This doesn't make sense if MEN are the ones passing on women.
So yeah.
That's been my point all along and I haven't seen a single piece of data that would refute it, yet.
Shrike
15m ago
I am spitballing here but I have definitely wondered if places with longstanding minority groups just are able to handle integration much better than places where the very same groups are new. In other words, in this scenario, possibly you are both right and it's just that DFW, which has ~always had a significant Hispanic presence compared to Fairfax, Virginia, is much better culturally at handling the situation.
It would be odd if it were not at least somewhat that way, imho.
MathWizard
Good things are good
17m ago
Well, "we as a culture" don't ever fully agree on anything. A hundred voices are screaming a hundred different things, and the truth is lost in the noise.
Some people are telling the truth, and some people are not. But these signals are not all received equaly. But collectively, the average socially acceptable advice given by the mainstream media and by middle aged women to their younger colleagues tends to be feminist nonsense. And then a lot of young men, seeking not to give good long term advice but instead to get an easy lay, are giving the advice that they want women who are easy and sleep with them immediately. And the women believe them and become "popular", but nobody wants to marry them and the men get bored and leave. This in turn causes them to doubt advice from me and listen more to the feminists.
The problem isn't quite as simple as men saying what they want and women spitting in their faces. The scenario is older men saying what they want, younger men saying what they want short term and pretending it's long term too, older women who've been burned by this spitting in the faces of both, and then younger women watching this exchange and then eventually following the older women, possibly after getting burned once or twice themselves.
hydroacetylene
26m ago
Why are these million women single if they're desirable? Clearly men are passing on them for some reason.
KingOfTheBailey
27m ago
The women are videotaping themselves ranting on TikTok about how they can't get out of "situationships" and into decent relationships.
WhiningCoil
30m ago
I think a lot about gambling apps in this context. There has been a lot of talk about them, how frictionless they make it to part with literally all your money. How if you actually do make money off them, they ban you. How, against the law, they personally call their worst addicts and entice them to gamble more. There is an argument I've seen made that if we are going to allow gambling, we need to add as much friction as possible to the experience to try to save people from themselves.
Similar care needs to be taken with those of us who end up in the returned goods bin. We don't need tiktok gassing us up about our worth, or dating apps dangling imaginary chads or stacies in front of our noses. We need examples of how non-broken people act in healthy, fruitful monogamous relationships treat one another, and maybe even the fear of god to scare us straight. Or something, anything. Just not this. Anything but this.
hydroacetylene
30m ago
I like this post because it can be interpreted two ways- in the 'fuck covid, the virus is so deadly it doesn't affect those who don't give a shit, I'ma do what I want' platform or BLM.
hydroacetylene
36m ago
Eh, it's entirely possible to adopt some 85 IQ child and raise them to be a perfectly productive truck driver or whatever, and it doesn't destroy your life. At a certain point society needs bricklayers- rather more than it needs more sysadmins.
hydroacetylene
38m ago
would be impossible without cooperation from practically the entire Department of Corrections
Why would we rule this out? Prison guards are notorious for accepting bribes and the typical theory names the Clintons, who have rather more connections than the average person. Ditto for the royal family, the mossad, and other commonly-pointed-to culprits.
The prison system is not very invested in enforcing the formal 'rules' of the system when it involves protecting criminals.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
39m ago
I would counter that lots of games are not meant to be played for mastery. They’re meant to be played for fun
Well, they're the same thing for me (and a lot of other people too). I'm not having fun if I'm not trying to attain mastery, so I pick games where playing them at a high level of mastery is also fun.
I’ve had this problem in real life too - often your friend group picks up something like table tennis or a new fps and it’s great fun but after a few weeks one or two people have knuckled down and got good, and now it’s no fun for anybody else because you have to play 1v2 or 1v3 even to have a chance.
Yeah, if you're playing in a social setting you want to pick games that will work well for everyone obviously.
RoyGBivensAction
Zensunni Scientologist
40m ago
It sucks getting older and realizing, you've been left behind with the other rejects, and now you've got to find the least damaged item in the returns bin to try to build a life with, knowing full well that's all you are to someone else as well.
I have no fucking clue how I did it. I have no fucking clue how anyone else is expected to do it today, except that it seems even more impossible, and the odds even more remote. But it sucks seeing all the "good ones" taken, and it hurts even worse realizing that goes for you too.
Yeah. And it's hard because so many damaged items in the return bin are still convinced they're the well-adjusted ones.
faceh
40m ago
And that one is particularly salient insofar as an otherwise mostly stable and fit person can become more unstable and then lose their minds due to effects of smartphone usage. (open question as to whether they'd lose their mind anyway.)
At least, that's what happens with young people.
hydroacetylene
41m ago
Sure, but the vast majority of tiger-mom scoremax grinders make it into 0 ivy league schools. I'll wager that the median outcome is that they get an education of equivalent prestige to their state flagship, just more expensive and requiring more scoremaxxing to get their, from someplace like Boston College or whatever. Hell there are probably more that burn out and wind up at community college than there are who actually get into the Ivies/Stanford/MIT- and I'm not claiming the former are a majority.
My gut tells me that effort put in past getting a 4.0 is essentially wasted. The supply of parents willing to push their kids to succeed academically at the expense of all else simply exceeds the demand by orders of magnitude.
Sunshine
43m ago
OK, fair enough, I guess a lot of people die before losing their teeth. Although I would argue that death means losing your whole body, including your teeth.
Sunshine
45m ago
Being exempt from taxes is small beans compared to having the right to divert tax revenue to yourself, which is the real prize.
And a huge (and growing) portion of them aren't using it.
Whose fault is that.
RoyGBivensAction
Zensunni Scientologist
46m ago
Convincing a woman to give up a their smartphone will probably go as well as asking them to cut off a finger, but maybe one can ween them off the most harmful apps and restrict them to just messaging friends and sharing photos to a site that doesn't allow viewers to interact directly.
Yeah, as if finding fit, financially responsible, and mentally stable wasn't hard enough, then add in "not addicted to their phone/social media."
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
47m ago
Its the asymmetry that grates me.
They have a uterus. You don't.
That is the asymmetry.
hydroacetylene
47m ago
I don't think you understand. In order to work at a Fairfax, VA McDonalds, you need to speak spanish in order to communicate with the rest of the staff. They literally won't hire you.
I doubt this. DFW is much more heavily Hispanic than Fairfax(citation not needed) and white fast food workers are a dime a dozen. They seem to be concentrated in the front of house with Hispanics working the fryer, but McDonalds will clearly hire english-speaking cashiers.
I suspect white teens in Fairfax simply don't want to work fast food, either because their parents want them to do something else(maybe more school), or because they have less desire for spending money, or whatever.
faceh
48m ago
You're doing the same thing as the women who say "yeah I have 20 options but I'm just not feeling any of them, you know?" It's the exact same thing.
Sure. So why do you only think it's a problem when men do it?
Its the asymmetry that grates me.
Once again I assert that you are completely and utterly off base about my material conditions.
As stated, I've gone on dates with a number of women who, far from getting scooped up by better men, just end up alone and slowly have their lives spiral away.
If I were the problem, why aren't they going on to something better?
hydroacetylene
51m ago
Trust me you don't have more illegal Guatemalans than Texas, yet I see plenty of white teens working as cashiers, waiters, baristas, babysitters, etc.
faceh
52m ago
My first hope is that someone has some countervailing argument or data that actually shows its not so bleak as it seems.
I want to understand the problem well enough to know if I'm not seeing something, or I'm seeing something that's not actually there.
Nobody has brought that forth that I've seen.
And finally, if nobody is going to implement a solution... fine. But the status quo will not hold!
What is going to happen in, say, 10 years when a majority of men aren't married, don't have kids, and are being expected to keep on working and upholding a society that doesn't give them anything in return?
I suspect a combination of:
A) Men voting for some RADICAL policies that REALLY DO start stripping women's rights away, because they have ceased to give a shit about women's opinions;
B) Men lashing out in more violent ways (both in lone wolf ways and maybe organized) because there's no rewards for good behavior;
C) Men just dropping out and refusing to do the basic work that keeps civilization afloat. If they refuse to become cops, soldiers, garbagemen, construction workers, but stay in their room jerking off or playing video games, then things start breaking down. And in this case, we will have fewer people to protect us from the violent guys.
I do not see a scenario where men continue to just keep eating the shit sandwich AND contributing to the society that is force feeding it to them.
All that to say, I think you should stop worrying so much and become a doomer, like me! I guess I still worry, anyway, so I'm doing it wrong.
The crazy thing is that I'm still pretty optimistic at my core. Despair is not in my nature. But I also REFUSE to lie about reality as I see it.
And I get a certain amount of joy from arguing someone into the ground and, if not forcing them to admit defeat, at least getting them to stop spouting stuff that I know to be false or inaccurate.
Everyone's entitled to their point of view in here, after all, but I'm happy to interrogate their view, and be interrogated in return.
RoyGBivensAction
Zensunni Scientologist
52m ago
Along those lines, it's not normal that evidence went missing from Epstein's apartment after the FBI's first search but prior to subsequent searches.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
55m ago
Well, we're getting to the root of your dating problems at least. "Ah, where have all the virgin 25 year old 130 lbs women who have more interesting hobbies than just Netflix gone..." You're doing the same thing as the women who say "yeah I have 20 options but I'm just not feeling any of them, you know?" It's the exact same thing.
but I'm sure that she won't ever be thinking about any of them or comparing your performance
It would be utterly bizarre if she didn't! How could you not compare! This is what humans do!
Basically we've discovered that you're not after "dating" (quite attainable), you're after "she has to be noticeably above average in most metrics, and I have to own her mind body and soul, there has to be no chance that she ever even thinks about a man other than me, lest I constantly be paranoid about cheating" (maybe not as attainable, unsurprising that you're having difficulties).
I knew plenty of people at elite colleges who didn't do anything near tiger mom workloads in high school. There are some seats open for ultra-grinders, but really not all that many (and you have to compete with Asians). Contrary to some stereotypes, admissions officers at top schools are looking for a mix of types, and being a tiger child grinder is boxing yourself into one of the most competitive. I don't know your educational history, but I'd imagine those types are overrepresented in the finance/consulting rat race, which may give you that impression, though. Much more common archetypes:
If you've got a kid with the requisite IQ, I'd maintain that the best way to get them into an elite college is not to grind them as hard as possible at the same metrics everybody else is trying to fulfil, but to let them freely explore their own academic and other high-status interests and put the work into them (i.e. basically anything a smart kid wants to do except vidya and scrolling). That's what gets you the kind of intellectual individuality that stands out to admissions officers. If they haven't got the requisite IQ, start thinking about what weird major they can take, or send them to State.
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