domain:drmanhattan16.substack.com
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
21hr ago
I think a majority of leftists believe that their official mission is illegitimate, and borders in general are basically unethical
Does anyone on this site think this? I meant like this argument in this thread.
Yes, in this very thread:
Good. ICE officers have, in my mind, about as much legitimacy as federal officials enforcing the Fugitive Slave Act and it is every red-blooded Americans moral duty to resist them.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
21hr ago
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
21hr ago
ICE literally posted a montage of masked dudes blowing up doors to the pokemon theme song.
I'm not saying the media isn't a biased shitshow, it is, but it would be much less effective if ICE were acting in an extremely professional and regimented manner, they aren't.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
21hr ago
What if we amend "disappeared" to "breaking someone leg and unlawfully holding them in a hospital for 37 days without charging them and while making them hard to find for a month"
Then
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We still don't know if it is true. We know he was held in a hospital and we know he was ordered released. That does not mean he was held unlawfully before the order, nor that he was hard to find for the relevant people (the ones who filed the habeas petition)
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We still don't know if the leg breaking was accidental or even justified.
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Most importantly, it lacks the gravity of "disappearing". Even if ICE was in the wrong, it falls somewhere between an ordinary fuck-up and some form of small-scale misconduct. If the cops decide they don't like you, break your leg, and hold you in jail for 37 days, you will eventually get over it. If they "disappear" you, you're never seen again.
It is inevitable that ICE will fuck up sometimes. It is unfortunately also inevitable that they will sometimes engage in misconduct, for which any officers who do should be (but probably will not be -- and that's a law enforcement thing in general, not specific to ICE) punished. That's a lot different than "disappearing" people, whether as a more serious form of misconduct or (as has been implied here) a matter of policy. Trying to swap those out mid-conversation is a ridiculous goalpost move.
TeknOShEeP
21hr ago
Its not just not a bad idea, its the only idea that will work. Self-deportations greatly outnumber ICE deportations, and have to do so for anything meaningful to be accomplished.
The legal system in America is simply unable to deal with millions of deportation hearings, you have to set examples pour encourager les autres.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
21hr ago
Cops manage just fine for centuries and they're front line. Also very unpopular in blue areas and yet aren't being murdered in their sleep.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
21hr ago
Ah
I mean to be honest people have been responding to me with somewhat obtuse responses and I note ZERO responses across any of my comments as to why enforcing immigration laws but explicitly ignoring farms and hotels doesn't undermine the whole project so it's not just him avoiding discussions he doesn't feel like having
pigeonburger
21hr ago
It doesn't look good man.
Would it not look good if it were not in the context of the media breathlessly describing them as stormtroopers for months? We're talking about counter-factual world we can't really observe here, but purely on its own, for me, masked guys blowing up doors to the Pokemon soundtrack doesn't really raise an eyebrow. It's not like they're committing atrocities, or even just filming themselves doing a bit of the ol' unnecessary police brutality and laughing about it, that'd be different.
I don't think there is a single manly man or cuckold in the story. The only way to win the game with Brett is not to play, but to go fishing instead.
There are more Bretts in today's society than ever before, and they have even more freedom and power. I know a dozen of them. That's what I mean about the relative level of transgression being lower than when the book was written.
KMC
lurk moar
21hr ago
You did the meme.
I voted for this, actually. Deport all foreigners, especially the legal ones, especially the unnaturalized paper citizens, especially the anchor babies. I do not care about their rights, I do not care about their welfare, I do not care where they go when they leave here, I care that they are gone. The longer it takes to accomplish this, and the more resistance encountered, the less I'm going to care about norms, or laws, or rights, or anything other than what I want accomplished.
This is called being a reactionary. The thing is, you can simply fix what I'm reacting to and I won't be a reactionary any more. Neat trick.
TeknOShEeP
21hr ago
Okay, and I'm saying its only "fuck the left" because the left has abandoned any pretense of rule of law and embraced Anarcho-Tyranny. The left could end the controversy tomorrow, if they just said "actually yes, lets enforce immigration law and stop selectively chosing which criminals are good and which are bad. Then we can work on comprehensive reform."
"Fuck ICE fascists!" Is not the own the left thinks its is.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
21hr ago
Sure but when the target audience is <50% of the people (and shrinking) in a democracy, your messaging strategy is kind of stupid
cartman
21hr ago
Perhaps that's not your goal, but you have to agree that that is the goal of many of your counterparts and it's the goal of those in the White House who are implementing the policy directly. Their public statements on the matter are intentionally designed to be both silly and inflammatory
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
21hr ago
I think a majority of leftists believe that their official mission is illegitimate, and borders in general are basically unethical
Does anyone on this site think this? I meant like this argument in this thread.
KMC
lurk moar
21hr ago
Given everything you say is true, who are my alternatives? Where is my better option?
I don't see one, and so I won't let perfect be the enemy of good, I'll take what I can get and ask for more.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
21hr ago
None of the above. I take law enforcement seriously and I expect the government should too.
AnonymousActuary
21hr ago
...are you on substack? I feel like a just read an article laying out this same point about John Brown.
One could point out that one way to avoid worries of a slave revolt would be to simply not build your economy on the backs of forced labor from an imported underclass that continues to grow...
TeknOShEeP
21hr ago
"Gotta catch 'em [illegal immigrants] all" has long been a mantra of Trump and his his supporters.
You think its retarded because the media bias in this country has led you to believe Anarcho-Tyranny is an acceptable form of government. That montage was a cute little poke at the fact that its not, and times are a' changin.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
21hr ago
The problem is that we have so many people on the left who are hellbent on pointing out the hypocrisy of the right for not deporting people in certain industries
What is the issue with this? It's a clear sign that the administration doesn't actually want to fix this. If they did, they'd go after the obvious places illegals were working. They come here because they work. Stop the people who pay them from paying them.
Why are hotels being told explicitly they won't be cracked down on? How does that make ANY sense with the stated goals of removing illegal immigrants?
They don't actually want to fix this, which makes the enforcement they are doing feel pointless and stupid
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
21hr ago
You would prefer "Ride Of The Valkyries" or "Bad Boys" or "Paint it Black" perhaps?
cartman
21hr ago
Polls are a lame argument when talking about public opinion and optics???
If you don't accept polls with evidence to the contrary of your views, and you don't accept arguments about shootings increasing being a sign of public opinion, then what evidence do you accept?
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
21hr ago
Just go after American farm owners who pay illegals American money to work for them.
You don't even need to deport them, make it impossible for them to work, make them poorer in America than they are in Mexico, that will solve this permanently.
If you aren't targeting the employers of illegal immigrants, you aren't serious about immigration. If you aren't pushing e-verify, you aren't serious about immigration. If Trump EXPLICITLY says he's not enforcing immigration against farms and hotels, it's clear he's not serious about immigration.
This is my thesis. People want action on immigration, but hate how they see ICE doing it. ICE is being run poorly and the administration is fucking this up.
They've done enough dumb/weird/unpleasant looking things that it's safe to say they're not operating at a super high level of discipline or care.
Breaking a dude's leg and holding him in a hospital for 37 days with no charges under a fake name so he's harder to find isn't "ordinary law enforcement". Shipping people to prisons in different countries isn't ordinary either. Even if those people are illegal, it leaves a bad taste in their mouths, and eventually at this level of sloppy chaos, they will do something stupid and fucked up to an American citizen who isn't illegal (if they haven't already).
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