domain:lesswrong.com
faul_sname
Fuck around once, find out once. Do it again, now it's science.
3hr ago
Is it the left that's posting videos of these raids? I seem to recall with the Hyundai plant raid that it was ICE themselves that released that video. They're definitely being intentional in their choice of optics within the video, at least.
orthoxerox
If you can read this, you're using a custom theme
3hr ago
"Not every room in my house needs to be aesthetically pleasing! Where's the variety? Where's the tension? If every room in my house is painted pleasant colours, I will take aesthetic pleasure for granted and I won't appreciate those rooms as much! That's why I painted my living room traffic cone orange with bright pink molding."
orthoxerox
If you can read this, you're using a custom theme
3hr ago
He was literally a Notre Dame-adjacent mayor. /s
Crowstep
4hr ago
You are aggressively ignoring every poster asking you to clarify why enforcing immigration law is equivalent to enforcing laws on slavery. This is just trolling.
EvanTh
4hr ago
but personally I don't see how adding "...by the government, after a trial (in which my desired outcome is the just one)" to "I hope my political opponent is executed" makes it not support of violence.
Do you oppose capital punishment in all cases?
If not, where do you draw the line?
Lizzardspawn
4hr ago
Iis morally abhorrent to cross border without permission and to overstay a visa. To impose yourself in a place you don't belong and doesn't want you.
EvanTh
4hr ago
Do you believe it is a moral duty to resist government agents every time they are doing something you believe immoral?
If so, how do you believe this is consistent with having a functional government? If not, what makes ICE so especially immoral that you believe it is a duty to resist it?
Bingbong
5hr ago
In Malaysia it's a bit of a Starcraft situation with the 3 major races of Chinese, Malays and Indians (mostly Tamil). Plus English is probably the most common language. So the majority of Malaysian Citizens will tend to speak Malay, English and either Chinese or Tamil if they're from the applicable ethnic groups.
After those, probably Indonesian (Though Malay and Indonesian have the same Bahasa root language and could easily be argued to be dialects and/or mutually intelligible) is next then it's a wild mess of different immigrant groups and other nearby languages due to a hell of a lot of illegal and legal immigration. I think Filipino and Arabic speakers potentially would be the next bigger linguistic groups.
Bingbong
5hr ago
Yeah. The mainstream media is definitely trying to make ICE look maximally bad, but also there's been a conspicuous decision from the people managing ICE to maximize the intimidation impact of their activities.
Which might not even be a bad idea, considering it keeps the Red Tribe happy that 'something is being done', makes the blue tribe wail amusingly and seems to have cut down on people entering the country.
Bingbong
5hr ago
Do they lack moral legitimacy because you don't believe borders should exist? Should the hypothetical Slave Catchers have instead of returning the escaped slaves to slavery, elected to take them back to Africa or to Mexico, wouldn't that have been less immoral than if they returned them to bondage?
Goodguy
5hr ago
I'm not saying that ICE is picking their own optics, I'm saying that the Trump camp are framing their immigration enforcement in a "fuck the left" way.
JarJarJedi
5hr ago
No, more precisely, having no access to the benefits of US welfare state is equivalent to slavery.
Skeletor
5hr ago
Okay so the two aren't actually comparable in any way that people should actually care about, or that you'll actually defend.
You have no actual equivalence to make between guys catching slaves and guys catching illegal immigrants, other than the fact that you think both are unethical, for reasons that may or may not have anything in common since you won't actually elaborate upon the comparison.
Okay bud, fair enough, good post I guess.
TeknOShEeP
5hr ago
Lol, Lmao even. Why do you think ICE gets to pick their own optics? Like any federal agency, they get to wear whatever label the media slaps on them today. And the leftoid media industrial complex has decided "nazi storm troopers" is the label ICE gets to wear for the foreseeable future.
Compared to most feds, ICE seems to be undertaking an extremely difficult task, that puts them in quite a lot of personal danger, in a reasonably professional manner. That puts them in the top 5% of efficient agencies as far as I'm concerned. Lefty shitflinging will happen completely independently of how ICE is actually performing, because it mostly works at convincing the average lefty voter their country is turning into the Fourth Reich.
ulyssessword
6hr ago
There are no shortage of other immoral groups it's morally obligatory to resist as well, of course.
Why didn't you choose one of those to compare to? Choosing one with an obvious parallel then ignoring it so hard you can't recognize it when prompted is an odd choice, to say the least.
Gillitrut
Reading from the golden book under bright red stars
6hr ago
All things that are unethical share the trait of being unethical, as I have been consistent about. That does not entail that they share particular factual similarities, such as involving slavery. That was a leap you made.
Tiber727
6hr ago
Open border, a functioning economy, a robust welfare state. Pick two, and the welfare state is functionally non-negotiable.
Ah yes, how could I forget all the wonderful government benefits that illegals most definitely qualify for. The rest is quite frankly a parody of how other people think and what motivates them.
Or that it could just be automated, and that it's insane to import tens of millions of farm workers right as we're looking at an AI/robotics era-defining revolution.
A, if they could be easily automated they already would be. B, Honestly the entire farm industry sounds like a mess to me with smaller farmers being pushed out of the market or being beholden to shitty John Deere's locked-down repair practices. I'm not as anti-AI as your average lefty, but I don't think this is coming in the next let's say 10 years and I don't think it'll be all that great when it arrives.
Skeletor
6hr ago
Hey speaking of skill issues, I notice you didn't explain how the two things you compared are in any way comparable. It was all fun and games equating ICE agents to guys chasing down slaves, but the moment you were asked to justify it, you imploded into mealy-mouthed bullshit where apparently everything you find unethical in any way is equivalent to the Fugitive Slave Act.
FirmWeird
Randomly Generated Reddit Username
6hr ago
I don't follow Klein enough to say definitively, but I'd say that something that explicitly disavows identity politics as having negative value both for humanity and for the Democrats, while explicitly praising enemies on the right such as Trump for helping to fight against it, in a way that shows that he believes that right-wing electoral gain is a worthy cost to pay for excising this cancer from the left-wing - even when some (or a lot) of the healthy cells around the cancer are excised - would probably meet the bar for me.
Just for the record, this is actually my personal position - though I'd actually go further. Yes, Trump destroying the flows of government money that propped up "left wing" activists might impact dems at the polling booth, but it is ultimately better for the left wing that all this propaganda is shut down. The left wing that USAID/NED/USGOV money has created and fed is choking out the birth of an actual authentic left political movement. Trump, to the extent that he is destroying the DNC and the infrastructure that keeps bloated slugs like Pelosi and Schumer well fed with donor/insider trading money, is doing actual left wing politics a service.
Gillitrut
Reading from the golden book under bright red stars
6hr ago
What do you think moral legitimacy consists of? How would it be different from what I said?
It's unfortunate that it seems like you have chosen to flame out, but taking your argument at face value - are you arguing for something to the effect of "A (enforcing the FSA) is immoral, and B (preventing federal agents from enforcing it) was an appropriate reaction to it; therefore if C (enforcing immigration restrictions) is immoral, then B is likewise an appropriate reaction to it"? In that case, setting A=9/11, B=the commando raid on Osama's compound, C=illegal immigration, under the reasonable assumption that the majority of US citizens agree that A and C are immoral and B was an appropriate reaction to A, are you arguing for commando raids to kill all illegal immigrants (and/or even those involved in planning their immigration)?
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