domain:rifters.com
Bingbong
9hr ago
Yeah. The mainstream media is definitely trying to make ICE look maximally bad, but also there's been a conspicuous decision from the people managing ICE to maximize the intimidation impact of their activities.
Which might not even be a bad idea, considering it keeps the Red Tribe happy that 'something is being done', makes the blue tribe wail amusingly and seems to have cut down on people entering the country.
Bingbong
9hr ago
Do they lack moral legitimacy because you don't believe borders should exist? Should the hypothetical Slave Catchers have instead of returning the escaped slaves to slavery, elected to take them back to Africa or to Mexico, wouldn't that have been less immoral than if they returned them to bondage?
Goodguy
10hr ago
I'm not saying that ICE is picking their own optics, I'm saying that the Trump camp are framing their immigration enforcement in a "fuck the left" way.
JarJarJedi
10hr ago
No, more precisely, having no access to the benefits of US welfare state is equivalent to slavery.
Skeletor
10hr ago
Okay so the two aren't actually comparable in any way that people should actually care about, or that you'll actually defend.
You have no actual equivalence to make between guys catching slaves and guys catching illegal immigrants, other than the fact that you think both are unethical, for reasons that may or may not have anything in common since you won't actually elaborate upon the comparison.
Okay bud, fair enough, good post I guess.
TeknOShEeP
10hr ago
Lol, Lmao even. Why do you think ICE gets to pick their own optics? Like any federal agency, they get to wear whatever label the media slaps on them today. And the leftoid media industrial complex has decided "nazi storm troopers" is the label ICE gets to wear for the foreseeable future.
Compared to most feds, ICE seems to be undertaking an extremely difficult task, that puts them in quite a lot of personal danger, in a reasonably professional manner. That puts them in the top 5% of efficient agencies as far as I'm concerned. Lefty shitflinging will happen completely independently of how ICE is actually performing, because it mostly works at convincing the average lefty voter their country is turning into the Fourth Reich.
ulyssessword
10hr ago
There are no shortage of other immoral groups it's morally obligatory to resist as well, of course.
Why didn't you choose one of those to compare to? Choosing one with an obvious parallel then ignoring it so hard you can't recognize it when prompted is an odd choice, to say the least.
Gillitrut
Reading from the golden book under bright red stars
10hr ago
All things that are unethical share the trait of being unethical, as I have been consistent about. That does not entail that they share particular factual similarities, such as involving slavery. That was a leap you made.
Tiber727
10hr ago
Open border, a functioning economy, a robust welfare state. Pick two, and the welfare state is functionally non-negotiable.
Ah yes, how could I forget all the wonderful government benefits that illegals most definitely qualify for. The rest is quite frankly a parody of how other people think and what motivates them.
Or that it could just be automated, and that it's insane to import tens of millions of farm workers right as we're looking at an AI/robotics era-defining revolution.
A, if they could be easily automated they already would be. B, Honestly the entire farm industry sounds like a mess to me with smaller farmers being pushed out of the market or being beholden to shitty John Deere's locked-down repair practices. I'm not as anti-AI as your average lefty, but I don't think this is coming in the next let's say 10 years and I don't think it'll be all that great when it arrives.
Skeletor
10hr ago
Hey speaking of skill issues, I notice you didn't explain how the two things you compared are in any way comparable. It was all fun and games equating ICE agents to guys chasing down slaves, but the moment you were asked to justify it, you imploded into mealy-mouthed bullshit where apparently everything you find unethical in any way is equivalent to the Fugitive Slave Act.
FirmWeird
Randomly Generated Reddit Username
10hr ago
I don't follow Klein enough to say definitively, but I'd say that something that explicitly disavows identity politics as having negative value both for humanity and for the Democrats, while explicitly praising enemies on the right such as Trump for helping to fight against it, in a way that shows that he believes that right-wing electoral gain is a worthy cost to pay for excising this cancer from the left-wing - even when some (or a lot) of the healthy cells around the cancer are excised - would probably meet the bar for me.
Just for the record, this is actually my personal position - though I'd actually go further. Yes, Trump destroying the flows of government money that propped up "left wing" activists might impact dems at the polling booth, but it is ultimately better for the left wing that all this propaganda is shut down. The left wing that USAID/NED/USGOV money has created and fed is choking out the birth of an actual authentic left political movement. Trump, to the extent that he is destroying the DNC and the infrastructure that keeps bloated slugs like Pelosi and Schumer well fed with donor/insider trading money, is doing actual left wing politics a service.
Gillitrut
Reading from the golden book under bright red stars
10hr ago
What do you think moral legitimacy consists of? How would it be different from what I said?
Gillitrut
Reading from the golden book under bright red stars
10hr ago
Equating "I don't like X" and "X is unethical" seems like a skill issue on your part. There are plenty of things I don't like that are not unethical for people to do.
daguerrean
10hr ago
You are purely baiting at this point
Skeletor
10hr ago
They are comparable in that the state's actions are equivalent in their lack of moral legitimacy. I thought I was pretty clear about that.
Yeah except you completely left out the part where you explain why they're, you know, comparable. You just walked out on stage and said "Slavery. There, now that I have moral legitimacy, I don't like ICE."
faul_sname
Fuck around once, find out once. Do it again, now it's science.
10hr ago
I have plenty of complaints about the conduct of ICE but the legitimacy of their official mission seems fine? Even if you think having open borders is a moral imperative the US is clearly not set up to support flipping a switch from 0 to 100% on that without lead time.
Unless this is bait, in which case can you please not or at least choose better bait?
Gillitrut
Reading from the golden book under bright red stars
10hr ago
They are out of accordance with ethical principles, of course. Do you think returning fugitive slaves was the right thing to do?
Gillitrut
Reading from the golden book under bright red stars
10hr ago
They are both agents of the state, in the instant case. There are no shortage of other immoral groups it's morally obligatory to resist as well, of course.
daguerrean
10hr ago
He is just playing dumb and pretending to not understand the question to avoid answering it. I’m not sure why, but I doubt repeating it will get anything more meaningful out of him.
ulyssessword
10hr ago
What is the connection between ICE officers and Fugitive Slave Act enforcers, that it's appropriate to compare their moral legitimacy? Why not any other immoral group, like payday loan lenders, patent trolls, or NIMBYs?
Gillitrut
Reading from the golden book under bright red stars
10hr ago
They are both doing things that are immoral. I thought I was pretty clear?
In Malaysia it's a bit of a Starcraft situation with the 3 major races of Chinese, Malays and Indians (mostly Tamil). Plus English is probably the most common language. So the majority of Malaysian Citizens will tend to speak Malay, English and either Chinese or Tamil if they're from the applicable ethnic groups.
After those, probably Indonesian (Though Malay and Indonesian have the same Bahasa root language and could easily be argued to be dialects and/or mutually intelligible) is next then it's a wild mess of different immigrant groups and other nearby languages due to a hell of a lot of illegal and legal immigration. I think Filipino and Arabic speakers potentially would be the next bigger linguistic groups.
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