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Seems like they’d be even more money-grubbing assholes.
Not a problem. We'll just have a pogrom every once in a while to take back our money and let off some steam.
I'm joking obviously, but the way that people on Reddit are talking about this murder is frankly concerning. These simpletons think that the reason health care is fucked up is because of insurance company profits, and if only the CEO was less evil everything would work out. Worse, they are fine with murdering this person because of their own incoherent beliefs.
Curious, why doctors rather than hospital administrators?
At least hospital administrators pay attention to how much things cost.
In many cases, doctors literally do not know how much the treatments they provide cost. This means that they simply don’t do any cost-benefit analysis. They will prescribe an expensive brand-name drug instead of a generic drug that does basically the same thing for no reason other than because they heard about it more recently.
Why is it the physicians job to know what things cost? A hospital will literally have hundreds of employees whose full-time job it is to figure out what things cost and deal with insurance companies, who are always changing things constantly. Even a small practice will usually have 2-3 employees minimum who spend most of their day figuring that stuff out.
It's entirely orthogonal to providing good medical care.
We do cost benefit analysis all the time, but it is in terms of the risks and benefits of a given intervention, wouldn't you rather us be focusing on that?
If you're not capable of doing it, then you need to figure out a workflow so that someone who is capable provides a price. This is a part of basically every other service in every other industry; it is not impossible.
To go to the auto shop example, you could equally imagine a mechanic-head praising the beauty and sanctity of the Art of
MotorcycleAutomotive Maintenance, and how carefully he considers the non-monetary risks/benefits of a given intervention, saying that in his view, the price is entirely orthogonal to providing good automotive care. He could be so educated and experienced that he thinks it would be an utter waste of his time to even put together estimates. I would say that perhaps he is right on all those points. I still want a price. I want it as a routine matter. Maybe he will have some customers who literally don't care, who have a unique, historical vehicle and a fat bank account, and they just want the artistic approach, damn the costs. But as a routine matter, I don't care how beautiful you think your orthogonal things are; you are running a service business where the customer needs to know the costs/benefits. It is doubly important in the medical domain for them to be informed of the costs/benefits if they're going to give informed consent.If you need to structure your workflow so that a different employee is up front assembling the estimate while the genius mechanic is spending every minute of his time on his craft, so be it. You have people that do that stuff anyway. Do it up front, not after-the-fact. Keep your patient informed. Just give him the damn price.
There are multiple parallel problems here.
The cost is fundamentally unknown. It is reasonable to determine what the average cost of a thing is, but that is not helpful information because when we leave the average the costs can become profoundly immense. More people are upset with an estimate that is off by multiple orders of magnitude than by no estimate at all, and that will happen.
To torture your mechanic analogy, it's like if you go to buy a car and ask for a Corolla, but 5% of the time you get a Bentley whether you want it or not.
The average cost is not necessarily known to your doctor. If I'm your surgeon I know what my professional fees are and how long my average case takes. I probably know the billing codes used, if I'm business minded I may know something about the average cost of supplies, instruments, and equipment. However a run of the mill routine surgery requires a team of 40+ people between the office visit, PAT, pre-op, intra-op, PACU, and post-op. It is unbelievable how many hands are involved and it is incredibly difficult to keep track. You immediately start running into problems like "cleaning staff are a critical part of the OR and are a cost to the hospital but are not usually considered a part of the surgery, is that a cost or is it not a cost?" or "does this facility charge by the minute for anesthetic gases or use a flat fee" both options are viable, your anesthesiologist probably knows, your surgeon probably doesn't. Keep track of "costs" is a full time job with an entire department just for the OR. Your surgeon might be able to say "your surgery probably costs 10k" because they asked someone in a billing meeting what all the averages on the spreadsheets said, but nobody wants to have a 20 minute conversation about how much of an oversimplification that is.
Additionally that is fundamentally not the surgeons job and does nothing to improve the surgeons provision of medical care. We evaluate whether to perform a case or not based off of the medical risks and benefits, not the cost. This is part of why healthcare is expensive in the U.S. but most people prefer that to the alternative.
Doctors wear a lot of hats. Things like increased regulatory burden and the dance with insurance below mean that you have of multiple departments involved in figuring out how to deal with the above. We already do a lot of things like that slow us down and prevent us from actually spending time with patients. Making it worse is not desirable to us or our patients.
The cost is irrelevant, which disincentivizes processes involved in streamlining all these things and makes it useless for your doctor to know and be able to relay to you. Almost all procedures are paid for by insurance or involuntary charity care by the hospital, with a small rarity of actual self-pay. Getting insurance to pay for something involves complicated negotiations where they try and pay you less than "cost" so you exaggerate cost as much as possible in hopes you don't actually lose money. It is not uncommon for the payment mix to end up being something like medicaid reimbursing 80% of cost, medicare 85% and private insurance 110%. If you mostly care for medicare and medicaid patients you go out of business (which has happened a lot lately) or require government bailouts. This is why the sticker price is so insane, and hospitals will almost always drop 90% of the bill if you end up being cash pay. You have to negotiate with the insurance company and that involves the "official cost" of a gallbladder removal being 100k instead of 5k or whatever.
A surgery has more in common with a government procurement and bidding process than getting a car repaired.
Even more simple things like an office visit are a pain in the ass to figure out. Unless you are doing very specific types of PCP practice or outpatient cash Psychiatry you are taking insurance. Therefore I don't know what the visit costs. I know what my billing team will try and charge for my time, they'll use the specific office visit billing code, I'm told to make sure to put X and Y thing in my note so they actually cover the work I did, but then I know that even the insurance company is supposed to pay for that code they'll make a big stink about it and require hours of the billing teams time going back and forth to make sure that its not worth it to actually get paid for that, even though the other insurance company always takes it if I put in X and Y, so my office staff will adjust the coding and bill you for the down coded visit even though that's not what I did and that's somewhat illegal, and your sister will get billed the actual billing code because she has "better" insurance.
All kinds of asinine shit like that happens for the most routine interaction with healthcare.
This is why psychiatrists are like "dude just pay me 100 an hour and we are good" and why there are now multiple forms of primary care that avoid working with insurance.
"What's my rate for a visit" is never a viable question because every insurance company pays me differently and its constantly changing year to year and I'm effectively only paid for by insurance.
This is false, as we've already discussed.
I don't care whose job it is. Every single other industry has figured out how to do this basic business practice in a decent way, and many times, there is division of labor.
This is the most pernicious, absolutely atrocious lie that is the core reason we have such a disaster of a medical industry. You cannot believe that anyone will read this entire thread branching from the OP and think that this a remotely reasonable response. Sure, if we just accept that everything is broken with insane prices that don't mean anything, then nothing means anything and we're doomed to dysfunction. We can do better.
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