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Culture War Roundup for the week of December 30, 2024

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There was a wild post on r/RealEstate yesterday. It's already been deleted.

Hello,

I'm a young owner of a few rentals - I got lucky young starting a marketing business that worked.

We've been having some wind here lately and it partly ripped off some siding on the side of my house that's way to high for me to reach with a ladder. I look online and call a dude with good reviews - I think he's a solo gig. He pulls up within an hour of calling him and he's like "Oh, no big deal!". I watch him get out his ladder, get up there, screw these screws into the siding that are literally going into nothing (i think he did it so it looked like he was doing something), he pushed the siding back into the trim, and got down. Literally up there for 2 minutes. He said "Okay I'll go to my truck and get a quote"

He ends up coming back to my door like a half hour later and he claims his service call is $3000 and the screws were $5.

I kind of just look at him and I'm like "hahaha how much do I owe ya?"

Him: "$3005. I accept all forms of payment"

Me: "You're joking right? You told me on the phone your service call was $75."

Him: "We never talked sir. You must have talked to some other siding guy"

Me: "If I talked to someone else, how would you have known to come over right away and do my siding?"

Him: "Uhhh.. I mean.. Like I use a contracting app that gave me this job. My rate is $3000"

Me: "I'll give you $100 just to leave. I'm not doing this, that's crazy"

Him: "Maybe I should call the police. Should we do that?"

Me: "Go right ahead but it's a civil manner"

Him: "This is theft of services. If you don't pay, I'm pressing charges and you're going to jail"

Me: "I can promise you if you keep up this immoral scam like behavior you're going to end up in jail"

Him: "I just got out of prison, no sweat off my brow"

Me: "Doesn't surprise me with that prison tat on your neck"

Him: "Look kid you gonna pay me or not"

Me: "No"

Him: "You'll be hearing from my lawyer kid. Hope mommy and daddy can pay for it"

Me: See ya later!

I'm 25 but look 20. I've had people try to charge me crazy prices for things or take advantage of me but this was nuts and criminal (not literally but you know what i mean - just not right). Why are there people out there like this?

There's obviously a good chance that it's a totally fake story. I'd basically assume that it is. I don't even really care if there's even a 0.1% chance that it's actually true; it doesn't really matter.

Part of the reason why people likely believe that it's fake is that it sounds like absolutely outrageous behavior by the contractor. Something that no one would put up with. Something that would shock the conscience if it actually happened and there was a recording of the interaction or something.

So what's weird is that this is the standard modus operandi in the medical industry. It's just the way things are done. Yes, if you have insurance, then instead of telling you to your face that they're charging a ridiculous made up number after the fact, they tell your insurance provider the same thing. But the basic fact pattern is absolutely the same.

I'm definitely not going to go all Kulak and say that since this routinized obscenity shocks the conscious, everyone needs to start going around murderin'. But it absolutely is a routinized obscenity that should shock the conscience. Perhaps my crazy pills are significantly less potent than his, but they appear to still be crazy pills.

Lawyers can debate the legalese of "consent to treat" forms and what they do and do not allow, but it simply cannot be plausible that we will have a functional medical industry when it is the one and only industry that is allowed to simply refuse to provide you a price prior to authorizing work and then go on to just make up whatever the hell inflated price they want after the fact.

That's entirely believable to me.

Dealing with reputable HVAC contractors in my area, quotes ranged from $13k-35k for the same job.

A drywall contractor my dad barely showed up while continuously demanding new progress payments. He kept claiming he was too broke to finish the job without getting paid, couldn't afford gas to get to the job, the job was in worse shape than expected, etc.

Construction / building works in general are one of the last industries where if you don’t personally know (and are friends with, and can afford to pay well in most cases) somebody competent to oversee building works, you’re pretty fucked.

Seconding this- construction has lots of A) crooks and B) drug addicts. You can find honest people who do good work, but as a complete layman you don't really have a way to do so.

Seems ripe for disruption by a large conglomerate which lets tradespeople syndicate with them and verifies they are not A) Crooks or B) Drug addicts. It gives them a certificate of approval and then they can use that to prove to prospective clients they are decent and thus get more work, no different to how any certification regime (that's not been captured) works at the moment.

As others have mentioned, good contractors have enough customers lined up that they don't care.

One thing I've seen done several times is companies guaranteeing a quality standard. Basically, they are eager to tell you everything about what good framing/plumbing/wiring/stuccoing should look like and will either send a second guy with a checklist or let you do it yourself or hire a third party.

Two drawbacks:

  • this still doesn't scale much. Several hundred houses or renovations a year are a drop in the ocean
  • these companies charge more than good contractors do

As others have mentioned, good contractors have enough customers lined up that they don't care.

I wonder if the right disruptive model here almost goes the other direction: not a clearinghouse for finding tradespeople, but a trusted service you can have "on retainer" effectively to subcontract the work. Ideally, you call 'em up, ask for [task], and they shop various provider options (some perhaps that they use often) with a reasonable expectation of the marketplace, and maybe even for an extra fee can manage the "will arrive sometime between 9:00 and 3:00" part where it's pretty disruptive for folks with full-time not-from-home jobs to let them in and get things done without the usual concerns. Bonus points for being able to make sure the job is done correctly the first time.

Although what I've described sounds a bit like a combination of the network of a general contractor (for larger tasks) and a rental property management company. But I've never heard a sufficiently-glowing review of the latter from a renter to want to consider asking "Hey, I own this house and live here: would you be willing to handle when something breaks?" Does anyone actually do that?

I’ve heard of gated communities, particularly for retirees, that essentially have this for homeowners, where the office will have their company / their guys who both built the homes, did the plumbing etc originally come back to maintain them without the owners needing to do more than call management and pay the bill.

"Hey, I own this house and live here: would you be willing to handle when something breaks?" Does anyone actually do that?

You might want to look into a home warranty company. Disclaimer- quality is generally not very high.

Work on a house is just too sporadic for a retainer that would be worth it to a tradesperson to also be worth it to a homeowner. Property management companies have enough work... but also pretty much care only about cost to do the absolute minimum to keep the renters from leaving or suing (depending on the market).