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PaperclipPerfector  3mo ago (text post)   29203 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 6, 2025

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Summary of the Lex Fridman-President Zelensky interview

https://youtube.com/watch?v=u321m25rKXc&t=1142s

This interview has attracted a lot of controversy in the weeks leading up to it, as Fridman has said that he wanted to conduct the interview in Russian, which they both speak fluently. Zelensky did not want to conduct the interview in Russian for symbolic reasons that are probably quite easy to understand. In the lead up of the interview, Fridman has a 10 minute introduction in which he tries to justify why wanted to speak Russian, and then the first ten minutes of the real interview is him trying to convince Zelensky. His main argument is that if Zelensky speaks Russian, an interpreter would not be needed, and more of Zelensky's wit and dynamism would come through, and that there wouldn't be a 2-3 second delay in their communication. Fridman even made a warning popup saying "2-3 second delay!" when Zelensky began speaking Ukrainian and it was being interpreted. I've only seen one other Lex Fridman interview, with Milei, but there were no such warnings and disclaimers despite how it was live interpreted between Spanish and English. Zelensky does say he can explain some concepts in Russian if Fridman wants clarification but refuses to do the interview in general in Russian. Zelensky says he's also fine if Fridman speaks in Russian the whole time or switches between Russian and English. Also Fridman does understand a bit of Ukrainian himself but is not fluent.

Everyone I've seen, including Zelensky and myself, has seemed rather confused/upset by Fridman's very strong desire to do the interview in Russian, since the symbolic concerns seem to obviously outweigh those. Especially since using an interpreter is not really a big deal. Especially for a Lex Fridman interview, his interviews are known for him getting really excellent guests, but he just asks them a few vague guests and do 95% of the communicating themselves. There's little benefit to Fridman understanding Zelensky slightly better when all the listener's are going to get it dubbed anyway. Adding more fire to people thinking Fridman is a Russian sympathizer, in his introduction he goes out of his way to emphasize the nuance of the conflict and that he just wants peace for both sides. Many people would call the Russia-Ukraine war a fairly one sided war of aggression by Russia where peace could be achieved whenever Russia decided to withdraw from Ukrainian borders.

Points:

  1. Zelensky talks about Odessa, how it's a beautiful city, and fairly transparently tries to build sympathy by talking about how great and Ukrainian it is. Not that I can blame him.
  2. Zelensky talks a bit about how his father fought in WW2, and about how WW2 began. He compares Hitler to Putin in how they both are aggressive expansionists. Also Fridman continues small digs throughout the interview- "It took me a second to catch the joke", or Zelensky says "bullshit" while talking and Fridman says "I understand, I caught that one word". Fridman continues that passive-aggressive behaviour a few more times throughout the interview, I won't mention every time. And again, he did nothing like that for the Milei interview, the translation and dub was very seemless for that interview. You could miss that it even was translated if you started halfway through and didn't notice that lips were desynced from words.
  3. Zelensky talks about how in the beginning of the way, he had to make fast decisions and do a lot. They started distributing weapons to regular civilians in the capital. He also spent a lot of time communicating to the citizens of Ukraine, appearing in videos he could share through the internet, and that it was very important digital networks weren't disrupted. It was important because from day 1 there really was Russian disinformation, claiming Zelensky ran away, but he could show videos of himself just walking outside his office.
  4. In the beginning of the war, Zelensky, with the help of media contacts, would speak Russian in videos directed to Belarusians and Russians and other Russian speakers, asking them to speak out against the war and protest. He is upset about how Russian speakers seemed to have ignored him and weren't not interested in resisting Putin at all. That's part of why he doesn't want to speak Russian now, because in his experience speaking Russian doesn't actually convince any Russian speakers of his cause.
  5. Lex Fridman is confident this video will reach Russian speakers and will help, that it will spread over the internet even though youtube is blocked, that even Putin will see it. Zelensky calls Putin deaf, "even if he speaks to you".
  6. Zelensky talks about a meeting he had with Putin, I believe this one in 2019. Zelensky says he had a conversation with Putin where Putin offered a ceasefire deal, Zelensky did that math on the numbers Putin offered there and told Putin it would take 20 years for all soldiers to withdraw given those terms. Zelensky says that made him realized that Putin was not actually deeply involved in the details of what it'd take to make a withdrawal happen, that if Putin was serious he'd already have been constantly briefed on these numbers and know how to make things happen. But instead Putin was not serious or interested in a withdrawal.
  7. Zelensky says three things were agreed upon at that meeting. A deal for Germany to continue buying gas from Russia, a hostage exchange deal, and a ceasefire agreement. Russia violated the ceasefire after a month, and Zelensky called Putin in response to ask what happened. Putin didn't explain anything, there were more calls with Putin over the next few months, Putin eventually stopped responding. Zelensky wanted to make a ceasefire happen, Putin was not interested. Russia was talking bullshit, and meanwhile sending snipers into the contested areas.
  8. Zelensky says any ceasefire needs security guarantees, because lives are at stake, and Russia can't be trusted to keep their word on purely diplomatic deals with no military backing. Zelensky wants a security guarantee like partial NATO membership, and/or an arms aid package that would only be used if Russia violates the ceasefire. Zelensky is certain that if any ceasefire happens without security guarantees, Putin will just come again after three months.
  9. Zelensky wants more sanctions on Russia too, particularly on Russian energy. Zelensky wants to see the world buying more American oil instead of Russian oil.
  10. Lex Fridman's first idea for peace is "What if Ukraine and Russia are both accepted into NATO".
  11. Zelensky thinks security guarantees without the US's involvement would not be enough to stop Russia from breaking a ceasefire. Europe being involved in peace talks and Ukraine's future is important too, but the US by itself outweighs the rest of NATO/Europe combined in Zelensky's eyes.
  12. Zelensky seems to lose patience with Fridman as the interview goes along. Fridman keeps talking about Zelensky, Trump, and Putin sitting down together to strike a peace deal. Zelensky keeps trying to explaint that Putin is not a good faith actor and that strong security guarantees from the US are necessary for any peace.
  13. Another of Zelensky's security guarantee suggestions was for the US to give Ukraine Russia's 300 billion frozen assets, and then Ukraine buys American arms with that Russian money. Another suggestion is non-NATO alliance like what Israel has, where countries like the USA, France, Britain assist to shoot down missiles.
  14. Zelensky praises Trump a lot. Probably just politics because he knows he needs to brownnose Trump.
  15. Ukrainian elections will probably only be held after the war ends, because of all the difficulties with occupied territories voting, all the millions of Ukrainians who are abroad, the risk of cyber attacks. Zelensky hopes the war will end in 2025 and elections will then be held immediately. He is unsure if he'd run again himself.
  16. Ukraine has been fighting hard against corruption, it has set up sophiscated and independent anti-corruption agencies, but Ukraine is not corruption free yet
  17. The US has lots of weird, arguably corrupt, strings about how weapons purchases can happen itself. For example, Ukraine wanted to transport weapons from the US to Ukraine on its own fleet of cargo jets. The US said no, that if Ukraine wanted the America to send it weapons, they'd have to pay for American jets to move those weapons.
  18. One time in 2019 Zelensky was visiting the white house and he wanted to go for a morning jog, but US security policy would have a bunch of bodyguards in suits jogging alongside him, and he felt too awkward to make them do that when he was just in athletic wear.

In general, I got the impression Zelensky was trying hard to flatter the people he needed too and put Ukraine in the best possible light. Not that I can blame him, given his position. Lex Fridman seemed really weird in how he seemed very sympathetic to Russia but not outright saying that, despite how obvious it was.

I really hate Zelensky's attitude that the world owes him or Ukraine and makes demands. Dude is a fucking beggar. He should behave like one.

  • -11

Judging by your past commentary, you probably could have stopped before the apostrophe.

I don’t think you’re necessarily wrong about his position as a beggar, but I also doubt it would be an effective tactic. It’s not going to win him more support from his base, more materiel from his backers, or better terms from his enemies. He gains more by playing the confident, defiant underdog.

And his attitude towards his benefactors (and since my country is one of those, means I unwillingly support him) is the reason I hate him. And his way of talking do rub a nice chunk of Europeans the wrong way. I am also annoyed that no one has bitchslapped him already to show him his proper station.

Are you surprised that no one routinely bitchslaps you to show you your proper station within your country? You're acting like a slave who has attitude about his master, someone far above him, not treating another noble, also someone far above the slave, in the manner the slave believes the master should. He's the last one to be asked.

You can accept the polite fiction that most people do that you aren't a commoner nobody (considering you don't have a word in how much taxes you pay), and give up all talk of "stations" and "attitude" and "bitchslapping", or else consider praising your masters for being much more merciful than they could be, before you scold them for being merciful to people you dislike.

What a nasty opinion born only out of overconsumption of russian propaganda. What do you mean " Zelensky's attitude" ? Are you calling his expectation that the west will finally act decisively about russian aggression "attitude"? Both the Europeans and the Americans have been way too slow and way too timid in their support and that is a fact. Their fear and cowardice will cost us in the future and the success of russian propaganda in individuals such as yourself is a part of why they are so slow to act. Would you have called Churchill a beggar when he used to call Roosevelt to increase aid? What a horrible mindset.

Hello, and welcome to the—oh. Not your first rodeo.

Please familiarize yourself with the rules, particularly personal antagonism and consensus building. What seems like a fact to you may not be so obvious to others. You should make your best case and convince them whether or not your opponent is nasty or horrible.

The attitude that his war has anything to do with us. I don’t think it does, and in fact it’s hurting our other interests as we bleed our coffers to support a country too up its own arse to actually negotiate a ceasefire with Russia. He’s bleeding his country of men for pride, and insists that he needs our money to do it with.

Totally incorrect. The war definetly has to do with us and you really need to spend some time to rethink this deeply. A russia that has shown it's willing to attack and bordering a NATO country is a massive problem for us because it would inevitably result in them vying for more down the line, this is really simple stuff and I don't understand why I have to mention it. The 2nd point you get wrong is the fact that this bleeds out our coffers, nonsense , I suppose you are American? The shit you guys have given is peanuts for you since not only it isn't alot as an absolute number compared to your GDP but it's also not even hard cash most of the time but equipment you will replace anyway. In any case spending some money is better than a massive war with an emboldened russia down the line. Unless you want to just leave NATO and let Europe fend for itself? Which frankly considering how affected your opinion is by russian propaganda I wouldn't be surprised.

Lastly, Zelensky is the one bleeding his country of men for pride? Is this a joke? Why are you even in this forum if you can't even comprehend basic stuff ? How can you possibly say something like that when it's Putin that started this war , and it's Putin sending his men in the slaughter over , at best for your POV , a future threat for russia , at worst simple conquest and control of ukraine ( news flash , read some history , it's the second). In any case you are clearly badly informed If I were you I would read up some more before exposing myself like this next time.

Ukraine should never have been given any inking of joining NATO. Had we left them alone and not supported the color revolution, there never would have been a war in the first place. We’re bleeding ourselves white to support Ukraine, a country with no vital security or economic value to either Europe or the US. Worse, we’re repeatedly crossing Russian red lines meaning that we’re doing all of this and risking nuclear war to do so. And Zelensky has long refused to accept reality and negotiate a peace plan — mostly because the man believes if he can just convince us to give him just one more weapons shipments, he’s going to take back Donbas and be a hero to his people. In reality, he can’t take back the land, because he’s down to running a draft by kidnapping old men off the street and shipping them to the front. He’s almost out of Ukrainian people to throw into the meat grinder.

All of the above is why us giving Zelensky endless money and weapons is a bad idea. This isn’t and never was our problem, and the only reason it ever became a problem is that we supported a revolution and then decided to dangle NATO. Membership in their faces. It doesn’t change the reality on the ground and it doesn’t change the enormous cost of this war. And it doesn’t give Ukraine anything that NATO needs

Every time I hear this...line of thought I feel frustration with some black amusement mixed in.
NATO is problematic, if not irresponsibly hostile, while very literal aggressive expansionism from Russia itself, when it's not outright 'dindu nuffin', is complicated and needs to be understood in context, and it's their backyard, and nothing is ever black and white like that, you know.
All of this, and more, is possible at the modest price of dramatically lowering the standards to which Russia is being held.
One would be forgiven for thinking that Russia in this frame is something akin to a rabid dog that just can't be blamed for trying to tear every careless passerby's throat out. I almost agree, though somehow the proposed solution always amounts to sticking one's head in the sand, sending thoughts and prayers to those unable to afford the luxury, and hoping everything will work out somehow, while simultaneously trying best to create the impression that this is the tough, sober, "realist" approach to international politics.

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