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PaperclipPerfector  3mo ago (text post)   29203 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 6, 2025

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Matt Yglesias made a good point about Trump and authoritarianism:

But here’s what worries me. Nobody agrees with the presidential candidate that they prefer about everything. It is completely normal and appropriate to vote for someone with some reservations or points of criticism. If, all things considered, you preferred Trump to Harris, notwithstanding Trump’s election lies, encouragement of violence, and promises to let the perpetrators off the hook, then that’s your right. There were plenty of other issues in the mix in 2020 as well. What I see, though, from the billionaires who disavowed Trump only to come back to his side, isn’t people saying, “That really was an awful day and I hope he doesn’t follow through on the pardons, but I decided that taxes and energy are more important.” Instead, they’ve gone totally silent on the points of criticism.

And there’s an alarming doublethink about this.

If I were to say, “It’s irresponsible to back Trump regardless of your views on taxes and energy because he’s an authoritarian menace,” these people would say I’m being a hysterical lib.

But if I were to say, “It’s fine to vote for Trump while still strongly disagreeing with what he did around 1/6, I’d just like to hear you say that in public,” the response would be that everyone knows it’s best to avoid Trump’s bad side.

If you’re not willing to voice criticism of the president, even while generally supporting him, because you’re afraid of retaliation, that seems at least a little bit like Trump is an authoritarian menace. I have concerns! And what I would love more than anything is for Trump supporters in the business world or at conservative nonprofits to set my mind at ease, not by arguing with me about whether Trump is an authoritarian menace, but by showing me that they don’t fear him and can offer pointed, vocal criticism of his conduct and strong condemnation of these potential pardons.

That’s how pluralistic politics works: You agree with people when you agree with them, but you don’t shy away from disagreeing when you disagree. And to a considerable extent, the fate of the country hinges more on what right-of-center people choose to say and do if and when Trump abuses his powers than on what anyone in the opposition does.

The article starts with examples of conservatives criticizing Trump in the wake of the 2021 riot and says "...I also respect (or at least understand) the decision of those who’ve decided they care more about other things than about Trump’s low character and basic unfitness for office. But what disturbs me is the extent to which the entire conservative movement has retconned not just the events of four years ago, but their own reactions to those events, such that these days, to be disturbed by them is considered some form of lib hysteria." At what point are Trump's allies tacitly seconding accusations that Trump is an authoritarian and his "movement" a cult of personality, by treating him as though the accusations are true?

Edit: I think discussion of whether or not the 2021 riot should be a factor in the 2024 election is missing the point. Substitute whatever criticisms you think are warranted; Yglesias's observation of doublethink isn't dependent on people not making a specific criticism, it's that refusal to criticize someone for their history of at least failing to avoid the appearance of authoritarian or corrupt behavior can be a tacit admission of fear that the person is, in fact, authoritarian or corrupt. The question I asked is the bounds of when we should make that inference.

The Jan 6th is an easy way I find to not take someone or something written seriously.

Trump did Jan 6th

The Left did the BLM riots

If you vote for the left, you’re voting for political terrorism

Which I mean, to me is true, but I’m not making points about it. It’s absurdist. I’ll only say it in response.

"The Left" cannot run for president. There are numerous distinctions between Trump's post-election schemes and the summer 2020 riots, but Trump's close personal involvement is a rather glaring one.

Unfortunately, the candidate on the other side was a vocal and enthusiastic supporter of the 2020 riots, even to the point of offering material aid to the rioters. And the summer riots were far more personally threatening to me than what happened at the Capitol building on January 6th, 2021

Harris and Biden both condemned rioters. Donald Trump vocally supported rioters as long as they happened to be wearing police uniforms and attacking protestors.

  • -27

Walz allowed the rioting in Minnesota and Harris raised money for legal fees of rioters.

And Trump condemned rioters and asked his supporters to peacefully protest. Nobody cares for him, and nobody cares what Harris may have said, they know she supported hers just the same as Trump supported.

Harris tweeted support for funds to pay rioters’ bail. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/09/03/kamala-harris-tweeted-support-bail-fund-money-didnt-just-assist-protestors/

"The Left" seemingly can. Who's really in charge of the Biden administration? Whenever I bring up this point, a common rejoinder is that I'm electing his team as well as him. There's an endless train of whataboutisms: nothing is particularly heinous or egregious.

No. "Joe Biden and his team of advisors" is equivalent to "Donald Trump and his team of advisors". The equivalent of "The Left" is "The Right" - a group which includes white supremacist terrorists, corrupt police unions, etc...

Expecting someone to completely abdicate political participation because someone directionally aligned did something disqualifying is unreasonable. Expecting someone to display basic civic virtue by not support a particular candidate that did something disqualifying is entirely reasonable.

  • -12

Everyone I knew personally at the time who would identify as being on "the Left" spoke of the protests in nothing less than rapturous terms and would loudly claim to be confused about how anyone could see it as anything other than a second civil rights movement. This includes the sorts of people who volunteer for mainstream dem candidates' campagins. Which were also the people who used cringe Marxist lingo constantly. Which were also the people who complained about how there were so many white people around, or performatively wince whenever they see an American flag. And also the people who were the most tedious about COVID and demanded the same tediousness from those around them, unless it was to protest racism.

The rank-and-file are where the party gets it's staffers from, and they're where regular people get the most personal contact with political parties and form their opinions of them.

I could make a similar rant about where on the doll the Trump supporters touched me, and I'm sure there are many who's hatred of Trump is based on obnoxious personal interactions with his fans rather than Orange Man Bad propaganda.

How the supporters of a political party conduct themselves is de-facto an element of that party's platform and persona.

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