This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Its associated with divorce risk after a certain point.
Of course YOU don't have to care about it.
But try to tell a single guy "yes you should settle for the girl that has like 6-12 guys she banged previously but don't worry I'm sure YOU'RE the one she sticks with and has NO remaining thoughts or feelings for the previous ones" with a straight face.
Reading your link, you sure you interpred this correctly?
There's a high peak at 2 previous partners, then a dip back down for 3 to 9. Then back up at 10 being maybe 3% higher than 2.
More options
Context Copy link
Divorce statistics shouldn't be a necessary condition to explain the male aversion to wifing up a woman with a past. If women's feelings such as the ick are legitimate, so are men's feelings and preferences.
If someone asked me why I don't eat roadkill, I wouldn't pullout graphs and studies about the longitudinal effects of consuming motorway by-product—I'd just shrug and say the thought of eating roadkill is revolting.
I have to say that I found the roadkill metaphor extremely insightful. My belief that female promiscuity is unwise is fundamentally disconnected from my opinion that female promiscuity is unappealing. I don't think less of the moral character of a woman who's been raped - indeed, the crisis might even present her with an opportunity to demonstrate her virtue in some way. But it does give me the male equivalent of the proverbial ick, just as it would if she'd had casual sex voluntarily, or been divorced, or tripped and fallen down the stairs onto a man.
I think that this is also why I feel a profound discomfort when I see other men list things like "five or fewer sex partners" as their standard for a woman. Because they're obviously using the more rational standard of the woman's wisdom - they're judging who's wiser, the woman who's had sex with five men or the woman who's had sex with twenty. But in my gut, this looks to me like, do I want the barrel of wine with five spoonfuls of shit in it or the barrel of wine with twenty spoonfuls of shit in it, and I'm just thinking, uh, no, I don't want any of the shit-wine, thanks, I don't care how exactly the shit got there, I don't care to grade it on a curve, and if that's all the wine I can afford I'd rather just be a teetotaler.
I'm pretty sure you can safely eat roadkill if you manage to find the right roadkill and you cook it right. But I'd still rather just not do that.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I would never tell a man to settle for a girl, though, unless maybe he is desperate to have kids and is reaching the age where even a man has to just take the best out of whatever mother options are available or else go without progeny.
What I would tell him is that if he actually likes the girl, he shouldn't let the number of guys she has banged stop him. And if he just simply has a visceral repulsion to that idea, I'd say fine, then go find some other girl. But I would recommend that he examines his own feelings and tries to figure out whether this is a true repulsion, like just not being into fat people, for example, or whether this is just a temporary insecurity that goes away with more experience.
Instead of recommending to a man that he settle, I'd recommend that he either goes and finds more girls or that he becomes more comfortable with having no girls, since being alone is better than being in a bad relationship.
I wouldn't worry too much, abstractly, about whether her promiscuity made her less likely to stick with me, if she was making me happy in other ways and I didn't see any evidence that she was actually pursuing other guys. Especially given that, since it is extremely easy for an attractive woman to get laid, for a woman to only have had sex with 12 guys strikes me as almost closer to celibacy than to promiscuity. Any attractive woman could easily have sex with 1000 men if she for some reason wanted to.
As for thoughts and feelings for previous lovers, I would find it a bit weird if she didn't have any at all. If by thoughts and feelings you mean that she was still carrying a torch for them, pining over them, etc. then sure, I think that would be weird and I would not be into that at all. But I would find it strange and almost inhuman if she completely put them out of her mind as if they had never existed. I guess you probably mean the carrying a torch version, though.
Gotta disagree, after decades of internet arguments I have lost any ability to tell genuine difference between two. Nearly every "true repulsion" is just a "temporary insecurity" according to someone else. "Not being into fat people"? There is a loud crowd of activists who will try to argue you into that its your social and cultural environment speaking, not ingrained psychological repulsion. Into monogamous relationships? Not difficult to find a polyadvocate who will argue its a temporary insecurity enlightened people learn to deal with it / it disappears. Repulsion to seeing two males being intimate? A different, overlapping crowd will argue that it is a temporary insecurity you need to deal with. Not gay? If you are good-looking man and go to gay bar, someone is likely to try arguing otherwise.
It is not limited to romance and sex either. I say it feels bad when I have less things and status than my peer group: one person will reply that it is a natural response to inequality, other will reply that I am just being jealous for no good reason. Don't like taxes? one person will reply that it is natural response to government taking money, others will argue that you have misguided idea about stealing.
Also, for whatever is worth, my opinion on skinny vs chubby is one of those responses that has changed over time (/anecdata)
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I mean, the average woman simply doesn’t desire the same variety of sexual partners that many men do. She desires a strong sexual relationship with a single man, which includes lots of non sexual affection, intimacy, caretaking, etc.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link