site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 12, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

15
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Frankly, my opinion is the opposite as I mention in another comment. I would rather someone be hypocritically good than consistently evil. That seems like a no-brainer. There was definitely a period in my life where I would have cared more about the hypocrisy than whether it was good or bad, but not now. I feel a little bad about contributing to a lowering of political discourse with my OP, by appealing to hypocrisy rather than discussing why it was good or bad on its own merits.

So, to circle back, do you have an object-level opinion about the new Twitter policy?

I still think it's a dumb policy. It seems to me there's tons of innocuous content that would be prohibited by it (say, tweeting you're at a concert with friends while at the concert) and it's not clear to me what the benefit is. Especially as this pertains to publicly available information. I think there situations where sharing someone's location can be problematic, but if I were writing the policy I'd probably require at least some kind of malicious intent element.

tweeting you're at a concert with friends while at the concert

The most literal and strict possible interpretation of the rules is not what actually happens. "Hanging out at the beach today!" type tweets would probably not get banned.

Every time a rule is proposed people pretend like really poorly programed robots are going to rigidly enforce the strictest possible interpretation.

Every time a rule is proposed people pretend like really poorly programed robots are going to rigidly enforce the strictest possible interpretation.

What seems to actually happen is selective enforcement, where e.g. normally "hanging at the beach today" is OK, but if the wrong person posts it, they get banned for violation of policy. One might imagine Trump posting a picture of a rally and getting banned for doxing a reporter visible in the pic. (Consider the "hacked materials policy" as applied to the New York Post)

I have a really hard time understanding your worldview.

I do actually care about hypocrisy, but I think when you point it out you should be careful to compare behaviors of the same kind and scale. "Dude upset at a social media monopoly banning a newspaper in order to influence an election, is now upset he has a stalker" isn't much of a dunk.

But to go full "I don't care about hypocrisy" is a bit of a mindfuck for me.

I think it is too strong to say I don't care about hypocrisy. I do think hypocrisy is bad, but I would rather someone were a hypocrite who did good some of the time than be consistent and evil. There are (many!) worse things than being a hypocrite.

Depending on the magnitude of the hypocrisy, and the good they are doing, I suppose you could come up with a case where I'd agree, but as a general statement that's a hard sell, especially when the good is directly related to the subject of their hypocrisy.

I could never trust a person who flaunts their own rules.

Which of course also further fuels my point this was just a “boo outgroup” post.