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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   31793 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 2, 2023

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will have to cope with millions of African/South Asian/Middle Eastern immigrants

Ukraine will? What on Earth are you talking about?

Look up the demographics of any former Iron-Curtain country in the EU and see if you can find even one whose current population born in those region breaches a single percentage point.

This is entirely a choice of national governments, not the EU.

The nationalist Ukrainian state, if it ever stops being such a poor corrupt shithole and enters the EU, will have to cope with millions of African/South Asian/Middle Eastern immigrants

Are you taking my sentence out of context on purpose?

This is entirely a choice of national governments, not the EU.

No it’s the migrants’ choice. Entire Eastern Europe gives massive youth emigration to the west because wages are low and living standards are low. That’s also why foreigners don’t go there. It’s naive to think this won’t change fast if they manage to catch up economically.

No it’s the migrants’ choice.

No it's not. Migrants choose to go to countries (through the asylum route) where they're unlikely to be deported (government policy) and where they're allowed to get into a benefits program and/or the job market (also government policy). It is entirely a government's choice to receive them, and a choice that EU countries are in fact free to not make, i.e. Denmark ever since their Social Democrats took power.

Is Denmark the only example of this supposed policy power? Because their anti immigrant social democrats caused at best some levelling off of still very high immigration levels. IIRC around 50k new comers for a country of 5 million each year. Do the population replacement math over a couple decades and it’s hard to see how this is a good example of anything.

IIRC around 50k new comers

It's a good example because they're overwhelmingly not from those regions you thought Ukraine would have to cope with. Which is what I thought was your issue.

Much of this immigration is from other EU countries, which Denmark cannot prevent whilst in the EU (and, more specifically, the Schengen area).

Yes that’s exactly my point. Denmark doesn’t have that much of a choice. Most they can affect is to replace the Iraqis with Romanians in the short term. Slight improvement

Poland constructed border wall and illegally pushed back migrants.

Unlike with almost all other things EU was not really complaining (unless it is proceeding and someone plans to dump also this on Poland/PiS?).

They like handouts. Migrants can and do work in Czech Republic - I see plenty of them. There's such a dearth of workforce actual Mongolians are being brought in to work in slaughterhouses and logistics. There is still a labor shortage.

Meanwhile, almost every middle easterner relocated to Czech Republic hoofs it over the border to Germany. Where.. what % of 'migrants' are employed? A third.

But when the war ends these two stories cannot coexist for long. You cannot arm neo-nazi battalions while going through the EU integration process.

More canny observers of Ukrainian politics claim it's not so simple. You can be e.g. an anti-communist communist, or you can be a neonazi battalion whose main sponsor is a Jewish oligarch. It's a land of many possibilities! Besides, they'd be 'our' neonazis.

Maybe the first generation stays in place but the second generation gets citizenship and can go anywhere. It will probably be a while before they decide to go to Ukraine, but they definitely will in the end. Same thing happened in the US, the immigrants all arrive in the coastal cities but they don't all stay there.

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