This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I've been thinking about why some people are terrified of Trump while others, like me, are more indifferent. I mostly tune out Trump news because I assume much of it involves scare tactics or misleading framing by his detractors. When my wife brings up concerns about his supposedly authoritarian actions, my general response is that if what he's doing is illegal, the governmental process will handle it - and if it's legal, then that's how the system is supposed to work. I have faith that our institutions have the checks and balances to deal with any presidential overreach appropriately.
This reminded me of a mirror situation during 2020-2021 with the BLM movement, where our positions were reversed. I was deeply concerned about social media mobs pressuring corporations, governments, and individuals to conform under threat of job loss, boycotts, and riots, while my wife thought these social pressures were justified and would naturally self-correct if they went too far. The key difference I see is that the government has built-in checks and balances designed to prevent abuse of power, while social movements and mob pressure operate without those same institutional restraints. It seems like we each trust different institutional mechanisms, but I can't help but think that formal governmental processes with built-in restraints are more reliable than grassroots social pressure that operates without those same safeguards. Furthermore, the media seems incentivized to amplify fear about Trump but not about grassroots social movements - Trump generates clicks and outrage regardless of which side you're on, while criticizing social movements risks alienating the platforms' own user base and advertiser-friendly demographics.
Y’all are overcomplicating this. @Corvos got closest.
He can’t keep getting away with it.
That’s the sentiment behind almost every controversy from Trump I. Whenever he said something racist, or mocked a disabled journalist, or bragged about fingering models, blue-tribers expected him to lose status. But he didn’t. When he hired his family members and funneled money to his own businesses, his followers were supposed to recognize him as a grifter. But they didn’t. And when he took a mob to the U.S. Capitol to contest the election, Congress was finally going to stop trying to ride the tiger. But, of course, they didn’t.
Same for the intertrump period. By the time he was accused of sexual assault and collaborating with Russia and selling state secrets and daring to do business in New York, dedicated Trump haters were salivating for him to finally get some sort of comeuppance. Even when the case was terrible. He was supposed to be cancelled, disgraced, away from the levers of power. Possibly in prison, possibly dead. I’ve seen gentle, empathetic liberals seriously wishing that the Butler shooter had been a little more accurate.
Instead, Trump is back in office. He’s learned how to actually staff his administration and he’s actively purging his critics. The institutions are more favorable to him now than they were in the past ten years. Everything that might be considered an overreach is justified by his supporters because at one point, a Democrat did something similar. Congress has consistently declined to rein him in; the Supreme Court has likewise been permissive. There are no more obvious routes to keep him from doing what he wants. @Dean calls this “lack of control.” I’d call it “getting away with it.”
I’ve spent way too long trying to make this convincing. Given our userbase, I expect most people reading it will grin and think about how cool it is that their guy is getting what he deserves. Or, worse, pick one of the points I’ve mentioned and launch into the standard Trump apologetics. It’s infuriating. It’s pervasive.
I want those people to understand that what they’re calling “TDS” isn’t realpolitik or delusion. It is a deep-seated frustration at someone getting away with it. The same frustration that you feel when the government refuses to deal with rioters, or senatorial insider trading, or catch-and-release for illegal immigrants, multiplied over ten years and concentrated into one man. One guy who has proven above the law, above public opinion, and above the checks and balances which make up so much of our national mythos.
He’s getting away with it, and that’s not a good thing.
It's fine if you don't like The Drumpf, I just don't get how you get chastize people for pointing out that you already got away with it, while also chastizing them about how he's getting away with it, and that’s not a good thing.
I haven’t gotten away with shit.
Assuming you mean my guy, fine, I guess Biden is getting away with some bullshit. I’m mad about that too. Thanks to living in Texas, he’s about the only national official I’ve ever voted for, and he fucked it up.
Not your guy, though that's part of it. Your party.
And it's not just for "elected officials" Your tribe includes every institution, corporation etc that it has captured and uses it's power however it sees fit.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link