This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Yeah I would run too. Because it isn't willingness to consider alternative explanations, that is merely a pat justification. You immediately came up with your alternative, in the exact same post as your original, and your alternative is to lie and claim the original explanation. That is what makes you duplicitous. That and your feigned moral outrage while you scramble to throw the mentally ill under the bus.
You are both making shitty arguments, and between @Skibboleth's low-effort dismissiveness, your stooping to personal attacks, and the crappy quality of this thread in general, I am exercising great restraint in not handing out bans even to people who really probably need at least a day or two to go sit in a corner and take deep breaths. So this is your opportunity to back off and take deep breaths voluntarily.
Well it's a good thing I checked my notifications before replying to one of the other lazy attacks on the mentally ill. Why are you bolding voluntarily by the way?
Because the alternative is a ban.
That was always the alternative? You did it to belittle me, to paint my perfectly lucid and even tempered replies as unhinged. Because you had nothing else.
Yes, the alternative to calming down and ceasing your belligerence is a timeout. That is always the alternative.
I do not think you are unhinged. I think you're angry and you're angry-posting. You may think your replies are perfectly lucid and even-tempered. They are not. I'm really trying to cut people some slack right now, but I'm running out of slack.
Alright, Gemini explained that my incredulous shorthand looks the same as anger to an outside observer, and I can see how it reads that way now so I am sorry. I am annoyed though, because I anticipated a mod response, as I do in any interaction with Skibboleth, and Grok cleared both those posts as lucid and even handed before I posted them.
Edit: clarity
Am I getting old? Because... I don't even know how to explain to you what I find so wrong here. Yeah. Yeah, that's why I feel old.
Can I assume what you find wrong is something to do with the idea of me outsourcing my determination of the lucidity of what I wrote to an AI or maybe the AI that is considered unhinged?
I put every post that I think has the potential for mod action (well, except when I'm too angry to care) through an AI first and ask if I'm being reasonable and lucid. I would have done this my entire motte history if I could, it feels to me like I got mod action on two types of posts - posts where I fly off the handle (so mod action is fair) and posts where I am struggling to believe someone posted something with what I consider obvious flaws (and mod action is imo unfair) - and it has been a huge weight off my shoulders (up until now) to not have to worry I was swearing too much or making oblique references or that statements I wrote in exasperation or incredulity would appear aggressive from a different perspective. I don't outsource my thinking to it in my perspective - I have no interest in letting an AI argue for me, but I do use it to shore up my Chinese room approach to the psychology of other people. It has also immeasurably improved my ability to not piss off everyone around me.
Also I currently have access to Supergrok, and in my opinion unless you tell it to be unhinged (in which case it's nuts) it's usually on par with Gemini. I know this because I have been asking it and Gemini the same questions for the last week. Of course it failed the first time I decide to rely on it exclusively, such is life.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link