This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Welp, turns out more Epstein files are finally getting released!
Apparently there will be a vote coming out to release even more, but the docs released so far have been negative for Trump's claims to be innocent of the whole matter.
This, combined with the ruckus over Trump arguing we need foreign talent, has caused a massive cratering amongst online confidence in MAGA. From my perspective, confidence in MAGA at least online is the lowest it has ever been. Many feel betrayed by Trump when it comes to his America First promises.
Add in the storm over Fuentes and Israel, and I feel I'm seeing the conservative coalition fall apart in real time, extremely quickly.
Is this inevitable, the narcissism of small differences? Or is it just Trump not being a very principled man?
Because the Democrats are releasing old nothingburgers with enough redacted to make them hard to identify, and people are falling for it.
My suspicions (which I'll admit are low-confidence and might be wrong) are that (1) there's a lot of smoke there, but not much fire regarding actual criminal acts on the part of major politicans, and (2) "the files" contain stuff that the government considers sensitive, but not necessarily in a way that is directly related to (1).
For (1), I'll observe that the previous blue administration previously held these files, and I doubt would have held off on either prosecuting (if sufficient evidence exists) or at least making it an embarrassing spectacle during the election (leaks or off-the-record comments). The only reason not to is if the evidence is particularly weak, or if the story implicates enough collateral damage to other Powers That Be --- the former seems more plausible to me. For (2), the entire investigation wasn't done anticipating direct public release, and it seems quite likely that some of the investigation would be politically damaging to reveal: someone here previously gave the example of "we were tapping Prince Andrew's phone even before we started the investigation", but generic "sources and methods" is probably correct in some sense. Also for (2), the side demanding the release of the files has shifted and (overall) stayed with the party opposite the executive.
Its probably something boring yet procedurally ruinous, like the party island being access capitalism at its finest and attendees not disclosing their presence. A guest list showing Pelosi at the same venue as Sheikh Iwantobuyalotofjets and CEO of myjetsareITARconstrained can be coincidence but its still fuel for congressional investigations.
More options
Context Copy link
It seems very unlikely to me that everything works in a sufficiently mechanistic or rules based way that 1) photos exist of Donnie snuggling a teenage girl, 2) they are in the possession of the federal government, run by Donnie for some time now and by his sworn enemies for years before that, 3) We've never seen them before, meaning that his sworn enemies were too principled to leak them, 4) they haven't been destroyed, meaning that Trump is either too principled to have them destroyed or in some kind of power struggle with someone within the federal government.
This all just seems to be way too much "playing by the rules" on all sides to be credible for me. The theoretical FBI agent who is too principled to leak it under Biden, and too principled to destroy it under Trump, while also being too powerful to be fired by either, doesn't strike me as a realistic character in our drama.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link