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Haaretz recently reported on a trove of new documents pertaining to the 1948 expulsion of Palestinians by Jewish Zionists. They are quite interesting, as they provide evidence toward the disputed claim that the Zionists used a conscious strategy of terror to expel the Muslim and Christian inhabitants.
There are a number of insightful things here that are a bit too long to quote. It mentions one Shmuel Lehis who massacred 40 Palestinians, becoming the only Israeli convicted of a war crime in this period. He received just one year in jail (in practice: hanging out at a military base) before being pardoned. He went on to work with the World Zionist Organization and became the president of the Jewish Agency in 1978. He later won the Chairman of the Knesset prize, the highest honor bestowed by the Israeli Parliament. Another interesting file involves the commander of the most prominent brigade at the time conveying the dominant expulsion strategy: "How do you expel a village? You lop off the ear of one of the Arabs before everyone else's eyes, and they all flee. In practice, no village was evacuated without stabbing someone in the stomach or by means of similar methods. We won thanks only to the fear of the Arabs, and they were fearful only of deeds that were not in accordance with the law."
I think these documents will be influential in future discourse about the Palestinian Question and the Israel Question. How justified is the Palestinian drive to take back their land from forces of terror (or their inheritors)? How justified is the existence of Israel? Should the world reward a state for taking land through ethnicity-targeted terrorism? Or are these events simply too old to inform present opinion? Comparing these events to Ukraine, we might ask: if Russia were to begin a strategy of terror bombing civilian homes, so as to lead Ukrainians to flee en masse, in how many years should we forget they they’ve done this and welcome them into the World Order?
The Palestinians have been displaced for too long, and have states of their own(they’re really not that different from Jordanians, Syrians, and Lebanese), this is just balkanian Kosovo je Palestine at this point. The people claiming the land weren’t born there. Their parents weren’t born there. Life sucks for the Palestinians, retaking recent settlements in the West Bank might be reasonable, but Tel Aviv je Palestine is just stupid. The reality is both sides have blood on their hands, the Palestinians seem to now be led by actual psychopaths when they aren’t led by corrupt, incompetent assholes, and the nakhba is more or less outside living memory.
How would you apply the “living memory” rule to other conflicts, actual and hypothetical, so that we know it’s not just an ad hoc rule? Eg, if China took control of Japan for 80 years, should no Japanese ever try to take it back? Should Europe have given up on retaking Spain after 800ad? There are Israelis currently living in homes built by Palestinians; is that not sufficiently “living memory”?
Christian Palestinians appear to be more similar to ancient Israelites than Ashkenazim. While an Englishman might be .018 away from a German using g25 coordinates, a Russian Jew is .09 away from an ancient Israelite while a Christian Palestinian is .032 away. They’re about two Samaritans away from an Ancient Jew, which seems pretty close.
If the native Japanese rose up after 80 years of occupation by the Han, then they would have the right to. If the Japanese diaspora attempted to invade their ancestral homeland which is now majority Chinese eighty years later, that’s just stupid.
Balkans rules of possession make things terrible. The Palestinians lost in Israël long enough ago that they need to accept that- but being very upset about their treatment in the West Bank seems entirely reasonable. Just like how Cherokees advocating for better reservation conditions or whatever is fine, but trying to conquer and ethnically cleanse parts of Georgia is psychotic.
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Yet people who haven't lived there for 2000 years are allowed to move to Israel.
Israel is continuing to attack its neighbours, continuing to steal land and continuing to attack christians.
By the Israeli government, legitimately elected by admittedly narrow majorities of the Israeli public. Israel’s West Bank behavior is indeed bad; both sides suck and need to stop Balkans irredentist nationalism, but Israël at least has a functioning society wherever it goes.
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When you control land, that's your prerogative to let in whomever you wish.
If Palestine were in control then they could have an immigration policy as open as they wanted.
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FWIW there were Jews living in (Eastern) Jerusalem, Hebron, and Gaza City for hundreds if not thousands of years before the Arab ethnic cleansing of these areas in the 1930s and 1940s.
There have been christians there for 2000 years so why aren't all christians allowed to move there?
Why should they be? I mean, your argument is that
(1) Jews haven't lived in Israel in 2000 years; therefore
(2) It's unreasonable that Jews should be permitted to move back.
I am simply pointing out that the premise of your argument is incorrect.
It's also worth pointing out that Israel has not attacked Egypt or Jordan in quite some time. Because what you call "attacking" is actually just defense.
In any event, from whom exactly is Israel "steal[ing]" land, and how did such land come to belong to other groups in the first place? Was it simply a matter of ethnically cleansing the land and living there for a while? Or is it something else?
Is it your view that after the Arabs ethnically cleansed Hebron of Jews in the 1930s and 40s, it became Arab land forever, and if Jews come back they are necessarily "stealing"?
Israel is currently occupying parts of Syria after bombing Syria and backing jihadists for years. They are currently expanding their territory on the west bank. The few thousands of jews who lived there can stay. The Eastern Europeans can go live somewhere else.
To whom does the west bank belong and how did it come to be theirs?
Also, would you agree that Palestinian Arabs who are descendants of those who moved to the area from what is now Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, and Syria "can go live somewhere else"?
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Can we send other ethnic minorities back where they came from as well?
Maybe all the blacks who can prove that they have continuously occupied America since 1776 can stay, but the new ones have to go back to Africa? The whites can all stay, though, no need to expel people who are part of the same ethnic group as the one that is 'supposed' to be there. As long as they're the same color as the people I like it doesn't matter what continent they were born on. The only people who have to prove that they're 'supposed' to be there are the ones from the ethnic group that I, personally, want to kick out of the country for unrelated political reasons.
I know you are sort of parodying here, but I think it's worth mentioning that in the early days of modern Zionism -- during the Ottoman days -- lots of Arabs moved to Palestine from what are now Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, etc. They did this in large part because of the enhanced economic activity which had resulted from Jewish immigration.
That's why, for example, "Masri" is a very common name among Palestinian Arabs. It means Egypt.
Logically, if Eastern European Jews who came into the area between 1890 and 1947 need to be kicked out along with their descendants, the same thing should happen to Arabs whose families came from Egypt, Syria, Trans-Jordan, and Lebanon.
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Phenomenal take
My stance on this since like ~2024 is "at this point both sides deserve each other" but yours is a much better way of putting it
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