site banner
PaperclipPerfector  10d ago (text post)   25196 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 9, 2026

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

3
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

like duh, megachurch Evangelicals do not want to engage in philosophical political discussion.

Speak for yourself! Some Evangelicals get C.S. Lewis-Pilled.

Are you a "megachurch" evangelical, though?

Eh. Depends on your definition. I’ve been at small churches and bigger churches over the years. Current church is on the big side, but I don’t know if it’s “mega”. I’m not sure how many members we have exactly, but there are two different service times and several hundred people at each service. Plus there’s a “satellite campus” on the other side of town, and another one up in the valley.

As a working definition, I would say a church is a megachurch if

  • it is not affiliated to a denomination
  • more than 1000 people watch the same sermons in real-time (either in person or by videolink)

But the interesting thing about megachurch Christianity as practiced in Red America is the distinctive theology and Church polity it produces.

The theology is de facto based around the "born-again" experience and the personal relationship between individual believers and Jesus (if you are being polite) or about being gay for Jesus (if you are being rude from a male perspective) or about Jesus wanting to be your perfect romance-novel boyfriend (if you are being rude from a female perspective).

The Church polity is based around the effectively total-within-their-Church authority of individual charismatic lead pastors who are openly permitted to keep a significant percentage of the collection plate for their personal consumption.

The theology is de facto based around the "born-again" experience and the personal relationship between individual believers and Jesus (if you are being polite) or about being gay for Jesus (if you are being rude from a male perspective) or about Jesus wanting to be your perfect romance-novel boyfriend (if you are being rude from a female perspective).

This is simply evangelical Christianity, as practiced since the great awakenings. There are plenty of small, very non-megachurch churches where the theology on this point is indistinguishable.

One of Trump's favorite pastors, Robert Jeffress, is affiliated with the southern Baptist convention. His First Baptist Dallas church has satellite campuses, has a theological convergence little different from nearby and well known megachurches, and he is the son of the previous lead pastor. This is a megachurch, and so are tons of other SBC churches.

Is there any non-pejorative definition of Megachurch? I mean this honestly, I only use it as a negative term of abuse. A sufficiently good Megachurch would become something else, almost by definition.

Is there any non-pejorative definition of Megachurch?

Non-denominational (but theologically probably heavily Baptist) church with a parking lot the size of a big-box store.

I'd argue a majority of megachurches are actually affiliated with a denomination technically speaking, but a defining feature of the megachurch is that it downplays the denominational affiliation if it has one, and focuses on the pastor and brand energy™ to solidify the church's identity. Denominations, like the SBC, or some historically charismatic/Pentecostal denominations that have megachurches affiliated with them often have a tense relationship with the megachurches because they're renegades. But they also are huge, attract large crowds that put money in the plate, and therefore wield large influence in the denomination.

That said, old-school Baptists/Pentecostals are immensely critical of them, particularly among the Pentecostals. Megachurches generally downplay or outright eliminate the 'holy roller' elements associated with classical Pentecostalism, the dancing, the speaking in tongues, and the snakes, because those are generally highly off-putting to lapsed Christians who want a church that entertains them without challenging them. Pentecostals without those elements are essentially Baptists, so except for the minority of genuinely charismatic megachurches, you'd be hard pressed to tell a megachurch affiliated with a historically Pentecostal denomination from an SBC megachurch from a non-denominational one.

The only times I've ever encountered the term IRL have been purely descriptive usages similar to MadMonzer's definition with no negative implications.

Maybe this is a me-problem but reading @MadMonzer I'd say:

about being gay for Jesus (if you are being rude from a male perspective) or about Jesus wanting to be your perfect romance-novel boyfriend (if you are being rude from a female perspective).

and

individual charismatic lead pastors who are openly permitted to keep a significant percentage of the collection plate for their personal consumption.

Strike me as inherently pejorative negative definitions.

But maybe that's just my preferences. Even baptist pastors tend to tell me they "aren't Megachurches" or pejoratively refer to another congregation as a "would-be Megachurch" around me. Come to think of it, could be a regional thing: megachurch is something "they" do not something "we" do.

Strike me as inherently pejorative negative definitions.

They weren't intended as definitions - they were intended to be an empirical observation about how large American non-denominational churches (my two-bullet definition of "megachurch") tend to differ from other churches. Megachurch theology is usually different from traditional denominational Protestant theology in ways which are controversial, and I tried to describe both sides of the controversy, probably badly. I agree that I was being perjorative about the practice of allowing pastors to get super-rich off congregant donations - essentially all other Christian traditions think that a pastor earning more than a doctor is per se problematic.

FWIW, I think the word "megachurch" is perjorative in that it is mostly used by people who disapprove of the underlying phenomenon (Blue Tribers who object because megachurches are Red-coded, and denominational Christians who object because they often promote heresy)

When I said "similar to MadMonzer's definition", I was referring to the

  • it is not affiliated to a denomination

  • more than 1000 people watch the same sermons in real-time (either in person or by videolink)

definition. I've never encountered the pejorative uses described. That isn't to say that people don't use it perjoratively, merely that non-perjorative uses do exist and are the only ones I've personally encountered outside this forum.

Have any of your churches ever utilized a smoke machine during a worship service?

Ha! One did, back in my college days.

Uh oh, I may have to diagnose you with megachurch American.

I can’t judge though - I was baptized in a megachurch, which didn’t even do me the favor of keeping any baptismal records. This became a slight issue when I needed documentation of baptism. Fortunately I had videographic evidence.

In a lot of ways the broader evangelical orbit has become megachurch-y, even if most of the clearly negative elements like pastoral financial enrichment are absent. I’m well aware of the social movement in evangelical circles towards imitation of whatever gets people to keep coming.

That said, there’s also a clear movement away from the Jesus rock/stage entertainment model of evangelical services, and I know of evangelicals converting to conservative Anglicanism and Presbyterianism, as well as some unusual Baptists who believe Baptists should have liturgical prayer. Lutheranism and Catholicism are less porous, perhaps for sacramentalist reasons, although as a rather high church fellow I insist on baptismal regeneration.

Uh, does over-enthusiastic loading of the thurible with incense count?

Alternatively, do they have bands playing which sound like a third rate copy of U2?

Wait, is this "smoke machine as in theater" or would a Catholic censer count?

Genuinely "smoke machine as in theater." I would also count it as a yes if any of his churches have ever conducted a men's conference featuring monster trucks.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats