This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
"the worst first amendment case I've ever seen" just had a good ending! You can read his summary (CEO of FIRE who lead the case) or mine.
A while back, a retired police officer Larry Bushart posted a political meme on Facebook mocking conservatives over the concept of not caring about kids who get shot in schools while cancelling people for not caring about Charlie Kirk's death.
In response, Perry County officials where he lived had him arrested and held in jail for 37 days, setting his bond at 2 million dollars. He lost his job from this disruption and missed his granddaughter's birth and his wedding anniversary.
This arrest was obvious bullshit, another case where corrupt abusive officials utilize the legal system itself as punishment. No one would have seriously expected this case to go through, but the process itself is often meant as the attack.
It ends with good news though, as part of the settlement Bushart is getting almost a million dollars. Bad news, like most abuse by officials it gets paid for by the taxpayers and nothing is likely to happen to the corrupt scumbags who were in charge.
But this is a great lesson at least. In the US, you can just be a random guy, upset the most powerful government organizations and draw their ire, and win against them. America is a country where David can take down Goliath, whether it be your local officials or federal ones. Bushart refused to accept the abuse, he stood up to the bullies, and he won.
No, this shows that you can do this against government organizations that have a right-wing bias. It does not show that you can do this against government organizations in general.
It also depends on how big the institution you're fighting is and how much practice they've had doing it. If it had been the FBI instead of the county, they would have questioned him, they would have found or manufactured a felony, he would be jailed, and there would be nothing he could do.
There's been plenty of legal wins against left wing abuse. Here's a recent one involving free speech from a conservative. Her damages were obviously much lower (not flying a flag on a flagpole vs being put in jail for over a month) so she only got about 30k but yes, when government leaders illegally step on your rights you can sue and you can win/force them to settle.
Now it might take a while, especially if you aren't willing to settle after all the court system is slow and backlogged. But that's not because of unfairness, it's just a general court issue. Often the real problem that tends to happen with court is idiots. Idiots who don't realize that actually nothing illegally happened, your rights were not stepped on, and they're just stupid. The law is complex and criminals are stupid, it's why "you have to tell me if you're a cop right?" continues to be a thing. No they don't, and the court will not take you selling drugs to an undercover one as entrapment.
Now hold up, if they conducted a legal search and found a felony and proved it in court then of course he could end up jailed for it.
If they manufactured one, then he would argue for his innocence and try to provide counter evidence it isn't real. Given that isn't many cases even alleging that the FBI or other groups manufactured evidence, especially excluding anything like an obvious schizophrenic representing themselves in court filings saying it, I don't think there's much reason to believe it's actually happened often.
Yes, they would have. They would have come with an electronics search warrant based on the probable cause that he was using a computer to transmit interstate terrorist threats. They would have found an unencrypted hard drive with a terabyte of a particular type of obscene photo which the FBI is allowed to posses but which average people possessing is a serious felony in the United States. They would have dropped the threats charges and proceeded with the incidental charges. They did this to several J6ers.
You're saying that the FBI framed several J6ers by "sprinkle some child pornography on him" ? source? would love to read up on this.
This is just what has been reported in the media.
Daniel Tocci plead guilty to possession of child pornography. Doesn't seem like the police sprinkled it on his computer.
In the United States federal system, guilty pleas are procedurally manufactured through defendant intimidation. Read my other comment on this https://www.themotte.org/post/3758/culture-war-roundup-for-the-week/445398?context=8#context
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link