Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
- 214
- 2
What is this place?
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
If in doubt, please post it!
Rules
- Courtesy
- Content
- Engagement
- When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
- Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be.
- Accept temporary bans as a time-out, and don't attempt to rejoin the conversation until it's lifted.
- Don't attempt to build consensus or enforce ideological conformity.
- Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
- The Wildcard Rule
- The Metarule

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I see Adrian Tchaikovsky brought up quite a bit, but can’t shake the irrational premonition that his books are exceptionally gay (probably in concurrent association with the emperor Hadrian and Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky). Is this the case? Please advise.
In Shards of Earth he favours a prose style I find a bit convoluted.
Until there's a chapter in a bar where he's describing the crews polyamorous dating habits. It suddenly switches into a perfectly clear writing style.
He goes back to being convoluted when the interesting space stuff starts up again.
I've read Shards of Earth and Ruin, and I don't remember any sex or romance in either of those.
More options
Context Copy link
When he does attempt relationships, love, or lust I tend to speed through it on account of a particular prejudice against the traditional sci-fi author's approach to these topics. He fits the bill and that's a good thing. We aren't reading to explore conflicted passions of cowboys on the prairie even if he could do so with unusual sophistication. Sapphic demons, on the other hand, can be mentioned to raise the eyebrow, but only if we get back to the things he really wants to write about.
Progressive gestures do exist in his work but not in an exceptionally gay way. House of Open Wounds, second in a series and the only fantasy I've read outside of Tolkien in decades, has been my favorite book of his.
More options
Context Copy link
My impression is that he just doesn't have that much interest in writing any kind of romance. Green City Wars (which I just read and loved) had a murderous weasel as classic noir femme fatale, but while the racoon protagonist had a clear aesthetic appreciation for her, it was very explicitly nonsexual (as a result of the species barrier.)
More options
Context Copy link
Most of what I've read from him steers clear of anything sexual. I hadn't really noticed the lack until you mentioned it
More options
Context Copy link
I can’t speak for his books in the generality but Elder Race doesn’t have any of that kind of thing, or even any romance.
It’s primarily a story about the (platonic) relationship between an ancient nanoaugmented ethnologist stranded on a colony world that has regressed to medieval tech, and the spunky princess fifth in line who’s going on a Quest in order to make people take her seriously and thinks he’s a wizard.
The other novella I read, The Expert System’s Brother, doesn’t have that kind of thing either.
Elder Race is the only one of his I've read and what I recall is that the spunky princess spends a lot, a lot of time wringing her hands over the possibility that he'll try to make moves on her and due to the power disparity she'll have to go along with it, but in practice he's a perfect fedora-tipping gentleman without any trace of toxic masculinity who would never treat m'lady so.
It's been a while but I recall the whole thing feeling extremely reddit.
Based on the one book I decided I wouldn't be reading anything else of his. We're spoiled for choice anyway.
Elder Race is one of my favourite books and I don't recognise this description at all. There's one bit where she realises she's formally put herself in the debt of an ancient and largely incomprehensible (to her at that point) being. Since she's very sheltered and inclined to think in story plots, she wonders if this is going to be a story about how a princess got spirited away by a wizard. Nothing comes of it because he's a clinically depressed basket case who regards her as primitive, and because he's still kicking himself for totally fouling up a budding romance with her long-dead great-great-grandmother.
The plot is mostly about her growing up and getting a clue, while he reconnects with humanity. (Also realising that being a 'wizard' is much cooler than being a shut-in old man and the Ethics Committee can go hang, they’re all dead anyways.)
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link