This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
You do not help yourself by exaggerating. 18 and 17 is fine, and everyone thinks so except for mentally ill people. 24+ and 17 is about where the controversy battle lines are set.
Thinking there is no problem with 18 and 17 but there somehow is with 25 and 17 is about as reasonable as thinking there is a problem with 17 and 18, imo.
Let's take that to the extreme.
25 and 17 is 8 year age gap. 18 and 17 is 1 year age gap. When Mr 25 was 18, Ms 17 was 10. You cool with an 18 year old fucking a 10 year old? Because that's where the objections are coming from: when A was the age B is now, B was way too damn young.
Do you extend this logic to retirees: that 78 and 70 are not supposed to date?
That's an 8 year gap and not as bad. Once over the age of adulthood and into maturity, the disparity is remedied. The problem at the younger end is that it's not about "Well she's physically able to get pregnant and deliver a child", it's about "she (or he) really is too damn young and inexperienced for all the troubles of adult life".
Even grown ups have their marriages fail due to problems, why would an 'old enough to be my dad and me' couple do much better under the same kind of stressors?
Presumably, they do better than two twenty year olds getting married because there's a real adult and a quasi-adult, rather than two quasi adults. Yes, that says all sorts of things about power dynamics in the relationship, which is the reason to look real hard at the guy who claims to want this(not nonsense about his browser history). But if he intends to marry her in a timely manner and treat her well, I mean, women are supposed to submit to their husbands anyways.
Yes, and then when the quasi-adult gets old enough to be a real adult, there's regret and "I married way too young to the wrong guy, now I have met my True Love and want a divorce".
I haven't seen a relationship that doesn't go through a rough patch after 7-ish years. Whether they will work through it, or crash out, doesn't seem to have anything to do marrying young or running into your True Love.
Ah, the infamous Seven Year Itch. But I'm thinking more of twenty years down the line, when 17 year old A is now 37 and looking for more and unhappy with their life when they compare it to friends and peers, and blaming B who took advantage of them when they were too immature to know their own mind. That can turn nasty.
Plenty of people who were hell-bent on marrying/being with that guy (or girl) even when their family warned them off, and now they wish they could go back in time and change their decision. Plenty of people who declared at that age "I'm mature, I'm an adult" and now looking back they go "I was a damn fool" about things they did, not just in regards to romance but other choices.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link