This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Donald Trump reportedly called FIFA president Gianni Infantino in order to get FIFA to review the red card that USA player Folarin Balogun recieved in the match against Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Ordinarily, Balogun's red card would render him ineligible for Team USA's next game against Belgium in the round of 16. However, a special session of the FIFA Disciplinary Committee decided to suspend the red card, allowing Balogun to play against Belgium.
Belgium is big mad. The conventional wisdom in the immediate aftermath of the red card was that this was not a reviewable decision. This is a good reminder that nothing is ever final until it happens.
Oh god, did Trump somehow manage to make the perpetually underdog USMNT the bad guy during their home World Cup?
We were always the bad guy, this has just given the hatred a locus.
Americans and their ability to front as the best and strongest country in the world whilst also being the worlds biggest victim is unmatched.
Trump is not a popular figure. Neither is FIFA. Seeing them shake hands over the US team is like getting a letter of recommendation from Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein on your ability to manage a summer camp for girls.
No one likes the Belgians. Seeing them lose to the Americans would be great. But that would be quite enough for most people. And you should be courteous enough to pack your bags and leave when you're done.
Yes, many Americans have no idea how much people dislike the Belgians (and not just for the actions of Leopold II). Previously I was rooting for USA win here. After this, well, I'm still rooting for a USA win here, but it's now a little bitter.
It's generally seen as ill mannered and out of touch to go digging into the past for grievance with anything relating to politics. So I don't think Leopold has much to do with it. Football is its own history.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Somewhat related, I’ve read a lot of hatred being hurled at Belgium in regards to soccer. Can you explain the anti-Belgian thing? They seem like a tiny country that nobody really cares about with a soccer team that is like second or third tier in Europe. I know they’re highly ranked but that’s it. Why do non-US soccer fans seem to hate them?
It's hard to say. I can only speak for myself in that they are a bitch to lose against. They usually have very strong teams on paper, but they also never go the distance to actually win. For smaller countries to have their miracle runs ended by Belgium instead of the 'big teams' is very anti-climactic. For bigger teams to lose against Belgium is similarly disappointing. It feels like you've been robbed of all the romance and drama of seeing two big teams duking it out. Instead you get... Belgium.
More options
Context Copy link
They had a golden generation about 5-10 years ago that made them an absolute top tier team for a bit. They're coming down from that level of play so there's still some resentment about that run.
More options
Context Copy link
Shot in the dark but does it have to do with being the seat of the EU?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link