site banner
PaperclipPerfector  6d ago (text post)   19978 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 6, 2026

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

3
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

First, it seems weird that people go so hard on clavicular when stuff like this is accepted (at least by the online left).

The online left's problem with Clavicular is that he's part of the manosphere. That is the bottom line and his surgeries are ancillary to it, at most. It's just terrible optics for progressive gender values when a neurotic out-and-out misogynist influencer faces little trouble picking up young attractive women in Miami. Acknowledging this would vindicate incels, in their mind.

Of course, F1nn is not a good trans representative, being a pornstar and all, but I do think he represents a good part of why the online trans communities seem so weird.

It is disturbing and it comes with the territory. Social reinforcement, financial incentive and ideological capture create a feedback loop where "just a little more feminisation" becomes the rational next step. Add in a heavy dose of victim complex, and toxic acceptance of the most extreme variety of "self-expression" becomes necessary to prove the concept. ""Look man, no offense, but that sounds unhinged" sounds awfully close to what the transphobes tell me all the time. How can I repeat that line while being trans myself?"

It's just terrible optics for progressive gender values when a neurotic out-and-out misogynist influencer faces little trouble picking up young attractive women in Miami.

Was the progressive claim really that misogynists find it impossible to get laid? Birth rates in socially conservative countries and communities clearly prove that to be incorrect regardless of what ‘Clavicular’ is doing.

To me it seems like the idea that, say, the existence of a happy nuclear family with two dads raising well adjusted and successful children ‘disproves’ social conservatism with regards to family formation.

We can go even broader. There are people who get away with socially deleterious behavior all the time. Think of the famous shopping cart greentext. At some point the argument is implicitly ‘do [x prosocial behavior] even if some other people get away with not doing it’, whatever the behavior is and whether or not you agree with the specifics of the argument.

Denying that "chicks dig jerks" has been a feminist staple for decades, yes.

IMO the polarised nature of the discourse guarantees an endless enfilade of bad takes deployed as gotchas. Gen Z seems to have way more social outcasts than their parents' generation, and almost no one knows how to discuss the phenomenon without ruffling feathers.

"This is why no one likes you!"

"Well what about Brad? Everyone likes him!"

A lot of TRP is just crude locker room talk. Some interesting pattern recognition mixed with some bullshit. You still have to observe the world for yourself and decide which parts actually align with reality. Realistically, an average man can meet the standards of his looksmatch, but he usually has to put in the legwork in the initial stages. Failing repeatedly at that breeds bitterness, which then turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy and repels potential partners. A character flaw? Maybe. At the same time, there is an undercurrent of progressive platitudes that insists that in a western style dating environment, women would claw off their fingers before dating a Trump voting man. Both things can be true. Unlikeable vibes make dating much harder, and plenty of women still date objectively shitty men.

The discourse rarely manages to hold both observations in its head at once.

Was the progressive claim really that misogynists find it impossible to get laid?

I'm old enough to remember when the stock piece of advice feminists offered to sexually frustrated straight men was "be more feminist" and "of course women like nice guys – that's why you can't get laid, because you're not one" and so on. "The reason Nice Guys™ can't get laid is because they don't Respecc Wahmen enough" was a core tenet of what Scott calls geek feminism, and still lives on in how progressives use the term "incel" as a term of abuse towards any man whose opinions are deemed insufficiently socially progressive. See this comment by a poster who expressly believes that any woman who dates a conservative man must be mentally ill and filled with unconscious self-loathing:

My subjective observation would be that that attitude - women are liars, women are picky, etc. - about women leaks out into interactions with them, and, understandably, they, or I supposed “we”, do not want to get romantically or sexually involved with someone who thinks so poorly of “us”... I would recommend that loveless men consider one solution to their lack of success in the dating market is to re-examine their overall attitude about women and see if that isn’t playing a part as to why women are not responding the way you want them to.

I devoted several comments to attempting to rebut this reasoning as facile.

Birth rates in socially conservative countries and communities clearly prove that to be incorrect regardless of what ‘Clavicular’ is doing.

In fairness, feminists might legitimately rebut that misogynists can only get laid in socially conservative countries where women are afforded very little freedom in their choice of sexual partners, and that in a free society no woman of sound mind would voluntarily choose to go to bed with a misogynist. They tend to get very defensive when you provide them with some examples of men with backwards attitudes to women who nevertheless have no trouble attracting them.

advice feminists offered to sexually frustrated straight men was "be more feminist"

My memory is this pre-dated the mass internet access of geek feminism and the blogosphere and goes back at least to the '90s and the idea of the New Man. I was too young to have any real awareness of gender discourse prior to that but I see traces of the same message in repeats of popular 1970s sitcoms too (Bob in The Likely Lads, or the daughter's boyfriend in Til Death Do Us Part).

Unfortunately, unlike The Last Psychiatrist's dictum that "if you're watching it it's meant for you", barring convoluted epicycles I think these messages were received and absorbed by exactly the sort they weren't meant for. The Scotts A of the world were never going to cat call women and become wife beaters, it just gave them another reason to feel anxious around women.

I'm old enough to remember when the stock piece of advice feminists offered to sexually frustrated straight men was "be more feminist" and "of course women like nice guys – that's why you can't get laid, because you're not one" and so on.

I actually do not remember such a time. In fact, what I remember was closer to "oh, you are a nice guy? What, do you want a cookie? That's called being a decent human being, women don't owe you anything for that." Do you have an example of what you're saying?

In "Radicalising the Romanceless", Scott provided a prime example:

Step I. Consume More Art By Women – I think it’s a good idea to make a deliberate year-long project of it at this time in your life, when you are trying to figure out how to relate to women better…Use woman-created media to to remind yourself that the world isn’t only about you + men + women who have/have not rejected you as a romantic partner.

Sometimes I wonder if the person who wrote this actually believed that consuming art by female artists would make a man more desirable to women, or if she was just trying to line the pockets of her fellow female creatives.

I think you're conflating two things here.

Your version of the author's claim: "you should read women to get laid"

The author's claim: "being a decent human being is helpful, but not sufficient, to finding love. Since you have difficulty treating women as people, you should read women to become a decent human being"

There's no implication that reading Gloria Steinem is going to get you laid. The claim is that it will make you better off and maybe move the needle on falling in love:

So let’s talk about some stuff you can do differently to improve your life and your chances of meeting someone you’d like to be with.

What is the purpose of reading women specifically?

But I think it’s a good idea to make a deliberate year-long project of it at this time in your life, when you are trying to figure out how to relate to women better.

Does this guarantee results?

If you meet a woman, and you kind of like her, and you are looking for something to talk about, try asking her “What are you reading or watching lately? Can you recommend me something?” If you listen to her, and then go and read or watch that thing, she may or may not date you in the end, but you will get infinity coolness points because this behavior by men is sadly all too rare.

To put it simply - the (geek?) feminist perspective on this is something like "you should be a decent human being, but nobody owes you anything for that, but it might lead to something." If you do follow this playbook and expect it to lead to sex and get frustrated if it doesn't, you aren't actually a decent human being, you are a nice guy (this is a term of art).

I can't name a specific example, but there was a whole thing with "Nice Guys(tm) are not actually nice" which, like many feminist trends, started with a legitimate complaint but then overextended massively into just punishing guys they didn't like.

It's just terrible optics for progressive gender values when a neurotic out-and-out misogynist influencer faces little trouble picking up young attractive women in Miami.

I've seen several compilation videos of him trying to pick up girls in assorted locales and striking out. Maybe it's a numbers game, but "little trouble" seems to be exactly what he's facing i.e. he's not effortlessly hoovering up pussy without a care.

I mean he doesn't succeed "all" the time and disgruntled people want to signal boost when he fails, but you can find lots of footage of him succeeding with no effort or when he shouldn't.

Notably, people online tend to claim that he has paid the people who it does work on.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats