Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?
This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.
Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
This is hardly small-scale, as the problem has been a fundamental obstacle to my emotional well-being for 5+ years, but
How Do I Get A Woman To Turn Up For The Hinge Date She Said She'd Turn Up For?
It's not like online dating has ever brought me much joy in life. Twice now, back in 2016 and 17, I dated one person for a month or three who I wasn't crazy about, which I suppose is the normal baseline human experience. But just going on a singular date with someone every now and then at least made me feel like I wasn't being soft-blocked out of humanity. In 2019, though, I noticed an odd change; no one would actually turn up for a date. Way before the pandemic, I remember three women becoming mysteriously sick conveniently right on the day of the date we had planned. Another one who was a fellow zoologist "met a really great guy that weekend" so she had to cancel. Props to her for honesty, but it sure did make me hate my life.
Then, post-pandemic, every woman had apparently discovered a lifehack/This One Weird Trick; you can just say yes to a date, then not actually go on the date. You get all the validation of knowing a guy would go on a date with you, without all that icky tedium of having to meet them in person and probably getting assaulted or whatever. When the evening you're free comes up, just actually go on a date with the hottest guy out of the five(+) who've asked you out, and the other four sit at home wondering why they're no uniquely unlovable. Once, there was a woman who waited until she had confirmation that I was at the venue waiting for her before she unmatched me.
When it came out, I tried Facebook dating; it's location filters were utterly fucked; I kept getting likes from women a state away. But I did match with people who lived in the suburbs, a whole 30 to 40 minute drive distant. This meant scheduling was a bit more precise; I'd ask for a date on Sunday, she wasn't free until Friday, so I'd do the old-fashioned thing of trying to keep a conversation going. And FB dating in particular felt like OKcupid back in the day, I had several "real" conversations where I'd tell jokes or stories and ask her for book recommendations, then start reading that book. I was getting praise.
It would really ramp up. Then the day of the date they'd mysteriously have to work a double because someone called in at work. Or they got sick. Or had a headache. One woman had a kid, and three times in a row the ex-husband failed to take the kid on his day with it, which was apparently her only source of babysitting, so I got three cancellations before I took the hint and stopped asking. I got it into my head that they were giving themselves cold feet by building up what they thought were too-high expectations "Shit, I let slip that I like this guy a lot and now he's going to expect sex on the first date, better cancel to be safe." One time I had plans to meet someone who was moving into the city soon but visiting for the weekend; it was going to be a chill sunday evening at a cocktail bar. Then she asked to move it to saturday night. It turned out she was out clubbing or bar-hopping and wanted to meet up at such-and-such spot in the nightlife district, which struck me as hookup-y (she was recently single). I wait for her at the venue she indicated, get a vague text message or three from her, then abrupt silence, leaving me sitting there like a jackass on a saturday night surrounded by happy couples. The next day, I get an apology, something about her getting nervous and asking if we were still on for that night. I told her to fuck off.
This exact scenario happened again with someone I met while driving Lyft on the side; she was hispanic, so the whole ride it was like someone had a gun to her head telling her to keep talking; I'm just being my normal mildly-charming self, I'm not trying to hit on a 20something passenger. Then after I get a message in the app from about a lost phone; there was no lost phone of course, just her phone number in the notes along with a bunch of hearts and kissy-faces. Then I get paragraphs from her about how hot I am and the stuff she likes doing to guys. (I keep my replies non-explicit). Then the day of the date "Just so you know I hope you're not expecting sex because I'm on my period."
As far as I can tell, women think men are terrified of periods and mentioning it is trying to get the guy to cancel so he can be the bad guy (Who Only Wanted One Thing). If this tactic fails, they just escalate to ghosting, like she did on the day of the (stroll at the park) date.
I should mention here that I generally don't ask for high-pressure dates that imply a hookup; my highest aspiration is to make out with them at some point, maybe heavy over-the-clothes petting. Drinks on a weeknight. Comedy show. A walk in the park. Free live music on a weeknight. Tacos. Sometimes I'll provide two or three options for a date that each have different connotations, so she can pick the vibe and how likely it is to get intimate. Her picking live music of an evening over coffee of an afternoon is a useful signal.
All these little stories aren't exceptions, they're the norm. 90% of my arranged dates never actually happen, and I don't have very many arranged dates. Maybe one date actually happens every two months, wherein the woman is way fatter than her photos indicated, and I get a bunch of compliments about how decisive I was in asking her out and proposing an actual plan for the date when most guys just say "IDK, watever u wnt 2 do."
Oh, yeah. Hearing any woman talk about her experiences dating is infuriating to me; guys who start conversations with "Hey," or pressure them for sex, or ask zero questions. All things I don't do, and don't expect praise for, and if I did boast about not doing I'd get the "what do you want, a cookie? All that stuff is the bare minimum, ugh, typical Niceguy entitlement" response. I'm apparently just so much nicer and respectfuler and thoughtfuler than other guys, but also completely mediocre and sub-par and don't stand out at all and just about everyone is better than me, because these chicks are turning up for dates with someone.
My interactions with women via text become more and more begrudging, I offer less, don't bother to make jokes or give compliments, I just propose a time and place. My number of arranged dates doesn't change, nor does the rate of flaking/ghosting, so it seems what I say has zero effect.
Back in april I opened up Hinge after not touching it for months, saw I had one like, and sent the bare minimum of communication to arrange a date. She was plain-looking but not fat. She laughed at all my jokes, after a two-second delay, the time it took for her to realize what I'd said had been a joke she hadn't got. Everything I said went over her head. She drank a lot of vodka-soda, which I wound up paying for too many of. To this day, I don't remember anything she'd said to me, she left that little of an impression. We kissed a bit. A week later, we went out again, and every place I tried taking her to was closed despite their hours indicating they weren't closed, I was bored out of my skull, and the whole experience just reminded me of how much I missed Maggie, who I could sit for hours just listening to, who always said something unexpected or insightful, who'd catch fireflies with me and do weird bedroom roleplays and encourage me to write more. Someone who I was just in awe of, as a person. We met at a D&D table while she was still married; when I put out a public call for help moving, she turned up on my doorstep, recently-divorced. I distinctly remember the last time I was happy; October of 2019, right before she left me to go back to her abusive ex-husband.
I uninstalled Hinge.
I've lost a lot of weight over the past six months, I'm now under 200lbs. I'm a quarter-inch shy of 6ft. I'm apparently handsome. I'm a bartender, I've done stand-up, I'm an accomplished Dungeon Master, I can hold a conversation and be charming. I dress well. A guy friend said "I don't see how you could have any problem dating, dude, look at you." I know he was trying to be encouraging, but hearing it it just crushed me inside. I get less interest from women now than I did when I weighed 240lbs. Part of this is that I just became less outgoing over the past two years, because when I would try, I'd just have experiences that made me hate people. Women would start conversations with "Men are all such trash, amirite? Such-and-such media is So Queer, so-and-so film is Incel, what are your Pronouns? Astrology, Gaza, Orange Man, there's too many white people around here, I'm neurodivergent and asexual." The other week, some woman I'd spoken to before and been shot down by came over to me at my local bar and inserted herself into me and my friends' conversation, talked over both of us, then said she was going back over there, I could come join her if I wanted to. "There" was over by the guy she had come to the bar with. I didn't take her up on it, few things disgust me more than a woman flirting with me when she's already on a date with someone else.
Over a month ago, I tried going to speed dating. After the event, three of the cuter women I'd talked to were all chatting together and pulled me in. Apparently I was the most normal, non-creepy guy there who'd been the most fun to talk to. Some other guy had gotten handsy with all three of them, apparently he was a frequent flier at these events. I didn't match with any of them. Even when I'm the best guy in the room, I'm not good enough. At least this speed dating service doesn't require proof of vaccination or mandatory pronouns like that other one did, the one I got banned from for not writing down pronouns on my nametag.
Last week, I tried going to a Singles Board Game Night. There were 15 people there when there should have been 30+, the gender ratio was almost 2:1, and the only games on offer were Uno and Jenga. There was an older bro-y guy who did corporate sales who immediately started mechanically interacting with me, bought me a drink, warming me up, I recognized all the rote Networking behaviors. Turned out he was the organizer's boyfriend, and he was the designated wingman for the night, tried to get me to interact with an unfortunate-faced asian chick with zero personality who ignored me, then stopped talking to him when she realized he was a plant. I had brought Boss Monster, started taking out the cards, someone asked me about the game. I began explaining the premise, one girl got distressed when I said the goal was to "Kill adventurers," I looked around at the glazed expressions on the people around me, and just silently packed it back up mid-sentence and went to the bar. I do not belong here. Designated Wingman bothers me again, says I'll do great here, I have hobbies, I just have to bE mYsElF. It was an effort of will on my part not to blow up at him. Another woman arrives, wingman says "Ohh, there's one, do you want me to get her over here. Nah, you probably don't like black chicks, do you?" Before I can say that I actually don't mind them I just have bad experiences with the hipster ones who are way too into their Blackness, he's doing his bit on her. She's smart enough to notice something's off and is asking him if he works there or something. I lean in "He's a plant, he's trying to be everyone's wingman, just talk to me for a minute and he'll move on to someone else." We talk for a bit, I try to not be flirty, she's surprised that wingmaning is still a thing, I wind up explaining the theory behind it and why it doesn't work regardless. She's smart, but also not flirting with me, I suspect she's a therapist and switched into session mode. Some people have left at this point, making the gender ratio three to one, all at one table where the two remaining cute girls are where they've been all night, hedged in by a crowd of guys (all of whom are the most generic motherfuckers you can imagine). She gets me to join the table, where she sits down so the fattest woman in the room is between me and her, who is also black, so I suspect she herself is wingwoman for her fat friend. I look at the woman next to me, who's heavier than me, look at the Uno cards in front of me (I don't know how to play Uno). I look at the table with it's 3:1 gender ratio. I look around at the shitty bar basement private area with the too-loud generic club music, and the dudes in polo shirts, and I leave.
I have a few post-weight-loss photos of myself now. I could reinstall Hinge. But the prospect of going back to getting flaked on over and over and over and over and over just twists me up inside.
I guess you have a not-that-attractive face (perhaps the fat?), and come across as kind of awkward and autistic. Reasons for suspecting you're a bit on the spectrum: (1) you post here; (2) you started talking about "theory behind wingmanning" with a girl.
So, the way to get a girl to show up is probably: to lose even more fat and build some muscle to become more attractive; and to maybe learn what to talk about and what not to talk about, so that you don't come across as awkward and unattractive.
Well thanks, yes I am autistic, but my face is probably my best feature, and I wasn't trying to flirt with her, and she asked me about wingmen.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Maybe it's time to join a church or something.
I fail to see what relevance that has to dating, online or otherwise. I don't want to hear about how great jesus is any more than I want to hear about how bad orange man is.
So everything points to an issue with your text game between matching and the first date.
I've never had an online date ghost me and here are my 8 simple rules i always followed.
Don't over match, be picky.
If they are not responding promptly, unmatch.
Decide if you are interested after no more than 60 minutes of conversation.
Ask on a date. Don't ask for input, you choose where.
No more than 3-5 days delay for the date. If they hedge unmatch.
Communicate every day up til the date. Flirt aggressively but wittily, You want them hot under the collar. You should have them thinking about you sexually before you meet. If they aren't receptive unmatch. You are dating not finding friends.
Be assertive, on the day of the date, don't ask if they are still coming, tell them you're looking forward to seeing them later so you can see if they can keep up with you, like they have been saying over text.
Promise them you won't have sex with them on the first date even if they beg.
After the date if it went well get their number if you haven't already and call them the next day to arrange a second date. Maintain pressure. This is a hunt, just like your ancestors, you must run your prey to ground. No later than date 3 have sex with them and decide if you want to continue, if so tell them you want exclusivity immediately. If they refuse ditch them.
Do not give a chance for other hunters to snare your prey. Do not give them a chance to get bored. Move quickly. Move with purpose. You are the hunter, and you are valuable. Do not hesitate to unmatch if you are not getting enthusiastic messaging. It won't get better. Cut bait (to mix our hunting metaphor with a fishing one).
Women have huge amounts of choice particularly in online dating so you must be swift and certain and aggressive. Be borderline blunt if necessary.
I was online dating for a year. 15 women, all converted to first dates 13 to 2nd, 10 to 3rd. In all cases I was the one who ended it if i wasn't feeling it. Of those 10 i ditched another 5 after the 4th date, 4 after a couple of months and the 5th is now my wife.
I already do most of that. I don't know what you mean by 60 minutes of conversation, I typically get (scant) replies the next day.
None of the above stops them from flaking, though.
Mentioning not having sex with them sounds like it'd get them all pissy at my assumption of their sluttiness, something something toxicity, something something entitlement.
If you are getting scant replies cut bait. Interest should start high on their part. If they are not communicating freely that an indicator of non interest. Take the indication and move on.
The sex part is about playfully and aggressively flirting so if you have them warmed up and they complain about entitlement they failed your test and unmatch. Be selective.
But look out for mild pushback that is designed to be overcome. Tell them you aren't saying they are easy, just you know you are hard to resist. Be playfully arrogant.
I bet you'll get fewer calls of entitlement than you imagine if you have properly escalated aggressive flirtation.
Remember shit yests are just tests of compatibility and you should have your own bars for women to overcome. If they do not, politely turn them down.
You are in control.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Couldn't have said it better.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Sarker was referring to the community aspect of church moreso than the religious one. Though the former doesn't work super well without the latter, so if you aren't religious then it's true church isn't much of a help. But perhaps there are other community organizations you could join in order to meet people? I have no idea what options exist in Chicago, and they might be just as politicized as the examples you mentioned in your post, but I think those are going to be your main option apart from dating sites.
I tried volunteering to clean up the local park.
It was mostly trannies.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I've been told that people meet women at church.
How long do you spend texting these women before meeting up?
Well, I don't meet up with them, that's the whole problem, but typically a day or three, with the date itself set within the same week as matching. Two exchanges of messages per day at most.
Also, I thought the problem these days is that too many men go to church and they're all too trad. Also, since I'm a catholic atheist, not really my scene.
Out of curiosity, how many dates have fallen through since 2019 and how many have actually successfully taken place? Is there any possibility that you are giving them the ick in between the time the date has been set up and the date itself?
I don't keep a spreadsheet. 90% cancellations/flakes/ghosting/stood up is my best guess. This applies to people met IRL too. Unless "looking forwards to seeing you today" gives the ick, I don't know what I'm doing wrong.
I think it must simply be the case that you are saying something you shouldn't or not saying something you should. You said there's usually a few days of texting, presumably you aren't just repeating "looking forward" every day.
More options
Context Copy link
"Forward" instead of "forwards" would be a very simple solution if this is indeed the case. Mispelling ick!
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Recurring 'how to fix dating [sites]'
How about a bounty hunting dating site? Kind of like one of these prediction market websites. Is that already a thing?
Person puts up a profile with a $$$ reward for providing h[im] with a date with an eligible mate. Obviously tiered-rewards that are only unlocked under certain conditions. Maximum reward if you actually end up dating, minimum reward if [s]he shows up on the date.
Proposed dates would have to be vetted with a minimum of parameters. For example, while submitting the bounty, if one of the parameters is 'BMI<20', the website should simultaneously indicate how much of the prospective population is available to fulfill the bounty. Then the service would also indicate what an appropriate amount would be for the bounty, given how attractive the target vs recipient is, as a proportion of the population.
One of the issues I have with trying to play matchmaker, is that if I know a single woman, I don't know if she would be a good fit for the guy, and I don't want them to get indignant at me for a rotten deal.
Ideally, with such a service, people who are good at fulfilling bounties will gain recognition, and there will be more trust that they're not just trying to scam or setup the usual ghosting. Kind of like reviews on online sellers.
More options
Context Copy link
Woah that's intense reminds me of that one tv show based on a Houellebecq novel.
I think faced with such overwhelming circumstances, drastic action could be taken.
If you're looking for more 'interesting' characters, hanging out outside of mental asylums could be the trick. You could also get into the drug dealing business, I hear these guys do well with the ladies.
If that's not up your alley, I recommend systematically engaging in undermining current society.
Malware that shuts down some social media or dating app for a glimpse?
Engineered pandemic to remind everybody of their fleeting mortality?
Marketing some kind of new insecurity and selling the cure?
Something with AI, it really gives a lot of women the ick.
Alternatively you could go to therapy and/or join a monastery.
More options
Context Copy link
Does anyone use Tinder or Bumble where you live?
Its Chicago. I assume they do, I just get even fewer matches on Tinder than on Hinge. I have never, in my entire life, gotten a date via Bumble. I'm also not interested in people saying "Hey" to me as an opener. Hinge is supposed to be the perfect dating app with the most actual relationships that everyone uses and it fixes dating so why use anything else.
Getting unmatched the moment I confirmed I was waiting at the venue, and getting stood up after she changed the day/place, we're both from Tinder.
I think we've talked about Chicago before, but it's a tough city when it comes to dating. If you're looking for a tradwife type (under 300lbs) you're SOL. My strategy for assembling a roster in Chicago was pretty simple: decent photos, signal class/exoticism, hide all hoe-scaring interests, take her to a wine bar near a park on the first date, go "stargazing" in the park after, kiss her, have a line to get her back to your place with a modicum of deniability. If you want a girl who isn't extraordinarily boring, swipe on service industry girls or wannabe art hoes. Establish rapport and then quickly move to date logistics, never talk politics or sperg out, brush aside any of that with jokes.
That's already what I try to do and what my handfull of dates already look like, but, as I said previously, they never actually turn up for the date anymore.
Then my guess is that you're scaring the hoes in your logistics messaging somehow. But, also, women are just inherently flakey, and luck blows hot and cold in all aspects of life. Sometimes it'll be a string of "haha something came up sorrrrry", sometimes you'll get a "lol im so drunk can i just come over" and sometimes it'll be "lol im so drunk can i just come over" and she comes over and loses her hearing in one ear mid-makeout and you have to take her to urgent care at midnight because she has a pierced eardrum. This shit's weird, man, all you can do is dial in things on your end - including uncomfortable reflection on your technique - and then ride the waves as they come.
None of the latter two things you said have ever happened to me.
It's a numbers game, modulated by the attractiveness of your pictures and your standards for looks.
Yes, except that I used to have much less attractive pictures yet somehow women would still turn up for dates before 2020.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Just give up. I'm sure you can think of things to do with your time that are more enjoyable than romance.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link