Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
- 171
- 1
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I work for a consulting company you would have heard of. Im no stranger to demanding hours. And I’ve had people management responsibilities for over 10 years.
Based on that experience, I suspect we’re only hearing one side of the story. I’ve had easy people on my team and I’ve also had difficult ones. The difficult ones are always genuinely shocked when they get a bad review. It’s amazing, almost universally they think they are doing a supremely good job and they think they work extremely hard. And sometimes they are right - in a very narrow slice of their responsibilities. But they are often well below expectations in most other areas.
All of this is to say that this pattern matches with a problematic employee. Maybe you’re great with patients. But if your institution is anything like mine, being good at the technical piece of work is only one part of the job. Agitating with the staff, using excuses, and making demands like that will often get a person tagged with being more trouble than they are worth. And all the positive performance review documents in the system will only delay the inevitable.
I’m just trying to give you some perspective and help you course correct. Sometimes you need to hear the truth and I’m guessing the other women in your group are not giving it to you.
Well, you tried. It's hard to rescue a young man from his own arrogance, when he's first feeling the flowering of his agency and ability.
He'll either get humbled in a few more years and give what you said a second thought, or turn into one of those monsters in management who's "never wrong" and lashes out at people, destroying the institution from within.
Shit, we got on the topic of UK institutions in terminal decay once again!
This is a great point worth highlighting. I too went through this sophomore syndrome early on in my career. It’s natural for talented people. But if one doesn’t break out of it, they will crash out and find an early ceiling in their trajectory.
More options
Context Copy link
I admire the confidence with which you present these as the only possible outcomes. I hope I do end up with that much epistemic humility.
No epistemic humility required. Those are literally the only two outcomes physically possible. You think you can never be humbled? You ever meet a person who refuses to ever have been humbled their entire life?
You're a clinician, what does a person who always thinks they are the greatest, and is always correct about everything, and reacts aggressively when their ego is challenged sound like?
I know perfectly well what that person is. The problem is that I resent your implication that that's a fair description of me. You don't have to go digging very far to find examples of me admitting that I'm wrong about something, really. Here, I'll make it super easy for myself and kill two birds with one stone:
@Brainwavez @sarker
The recent shakeup at Google, with the departure of Jeff Dean, puts them out of the running as a frontier lab. I'm not saying they don't have a hope at all, I'm saying that regaining the lead is going to be even more of an uphill struggle. In other words, I was wrong.
Now, back to you, Coil:
Have you stopped beating your wife? Yes or no answers only, please. I'm too old for these games.
I would if she stopped deserving it.
/sarcasm
If adherence to the requisite format was beyond your abilities, I'm sure there would have been room for an apology. I have just learned not to expect very much.
Oh no, I'm not living up to expectations a jannie on a board for turbo autist has of me.
Better go beat my wife some more in frustration.
Honestly, I agree she had it coming. Use the belt.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Hahahaha. I can't even be particularly mad, this loops right around into hilarious. When I worry I'm too self-aware for my own good, I can do with a reminder of what its absence looks like.
Aight buddy. I'm sure you've got a proper Big Boy job. I know a handful of Big 4 "consultants". Probably pays the bills well, doesn't it?
I do wonder just how common it would be for an error you've made while under stress to lead to someone dying. Do you have any idea what doctors do? Been to a hospital since you were (presumably) birthed in one?
My man, last time you skimmed this story you got the sex of every crying person in it wrong, then built a thesis about British civilizational decline on top of your own lacking literacy. Now you've skimmed again and built a theory of my employment. I'm starting to see what passes for your workflow: read 30% of the text, hallucinate the blanks, invoice for the full engagement. I wish I could get away with that, I seem to have to work for the money.
In other words: knock it off.
I am sure you have perspective to share. I sample plenty, and I've heard more informed opinions from the floridly psychotic.
It's a first-person anecdote on a forum; of course you are. I presume Deloitte or PWC pays you for such cutting edge insight.
The difference is that my side comes with documents, and yours comes with hot takes about a profession you've never worked in a country you probably don't live in.
With all due respect (guess how much), the last man who guessed at my workplace from his armchair was you, one comment ago, and every checkable claim you made was wrong.
Let me see if bullet points help:
This is a strange way to “agitate with staff.” Apparently I have been so disruptive that nurses, pharmacists, ward administrators, junior doctors and senior doctors keep volunteering to say nice things about me when formally asked, and have said it before, without asking, and my boss's response to my campaign of terror has been to tell his colleagues to make time to assess me.
Perhaps the inevitable reckoning is merely taking the scenic route.
And to spell it out, my male peers, which includes the senior reg, and most of the consultants? They like me too.
The facts, as you understand and present them, are useful, however, they are also incomplete. I have two things for you to consider on the off chance you want to be helped and are just trying to save face here.
Management doesn’t like people that are annoying, demanding, and go around to the other staff badmouthing the bosses. Management also likes and expects to have the final word on things. It’s very annoying when people are explicitly or implicitly telling their boss all the great things they’re doing and ignoring all of the not so great things. It’s transparent and often invites backlash. A stack of good performance reviews are great, but if you’re annoying, it’s not going to get you very far.
You’ve represented yourself and 100% aggrieved and flawless. I haven’t seen any acknowledgment of behavior problems or challenges. You seem to think you’re well above your peer group because “everyone likes me and thinks I’m great. I know this is true because they told me so”. The fact is that unless you have a major problem with someone, you’re pretty much always going to validate a person and say they’re amazing when you are confronted for informal feedback. Particularly when a person is a loose cannon and potentially going to go off the rails at the slightest criticism. For formal feedback, well, I wouldn’t just take someone at their word about what they wrote without verifying it myself. It’s possible they’re being selective in what they tell you.
I find this all so interesting. It’s a great little encapsulation of the modern work environment, institutional decay, and personality issues. Your situation aside, it’s going to be interesting to see how things develop now that hospitals are run by a bunch of women in a sewing circle (in spirit, even if half those women are men). We’re very far removed from the stoic old man doctor with a cigarette or pipe. Maybe things will be fine?
I understand that your day job involves coming into a situation where you had no original stake, or direct involvement, and then assuming an advisory position despite a clearly superficial understanding of the facts of the matter. I ask that you keep it there, I'm not paying you.
On a factual basis: no, I haven't presented myself as perfectly flawless on any day of my life, even I'm convincing women to let me sleep with them. Good grief. I, like a real human being, have made actual errors. And like a responsible trainee doctor, I've disclosed that to my boss. They're not material here, because the one specific issue he raised wasn't my fault.
Have you ever considered the possibility, in theory, that someone might actually be liked and good at their job? Or is that an entirely foreign prospect for you?
Beyond that? I hope your advice finds someone who needs it. If you want the fuller picture, I can ask my boss to sign up on themotte.org. I'm sure he has the time. God knows where I find it.
More options
Context Copy link
I can't speak to the object-level here, but I'll caution for anyone on the state side of seeing-like-a-state that this is also the sort of diagnostic that shows up when the measure is wildly off-target.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link