This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I realize this isn’t a top quality post, so I accept the judgement of the mods, but a mistrial has been declared in the case of Lindsay Clancy. Shes the woman in Massachusetts who admitted to killing her kids, but claims she was suffering from postpartum psychosis.
The jury deliberated for seven days. Apparently, it came down to one male juror holding out against the other (nine female, two male) jurors. The belief is that he wanted to vote guilty. The jury reported to the judge that the holdout refused to follow the law regarding reasonable doubt, and the defense tried to have him removed. The judge refused. This morning, the judge declared a mistrial but gave defense one hour to get a stay from the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts.
Predictably, the online discourse is off the walls. X lifts the holdout up as a hero, while Reddit believes he (we know it’s a male because the defense said so) is an MRA/red piller and needs to have his phone searched.
Personally, I think she’s guilty of premeditated, cold blooded murder. That said, I get the postpartum argument, but am horrified by the defense of her and holding her up as some kind of hero.
I predict that the story’s popularity will lead to a measurable increase in filicide incidents. I don’t actually know enough about MA’s law to opine beyond that. The only novel thought I will add to the discussion is that IMO we should do more to make motherhood easy / comfortable / valued. There are evidently a lot of Clancyites in America who identify with her stresses and tribulations, signifying that there are many women who find motherhood too stressful, and the stress of motherhood is a simple equation: Skill + Purpose + Support.
Overloaded hospitals + atomized society + rat race economy -> overloaded mother's. Taking care of newborns really should involve extended family and not just the parents.
Alternatively, I guess you can solve this problem by just throwing money at midwifes and expanding the maternity wards so that new mothers can stay there for a few days and recover (and maybe receive instructions on how to take care of the baby) after giving birth. That might prove challenging in the privatized healthcare system of the US, but could at least work in other countries.
Perhaps we can assign and pay female high school and college students to help out new mothers, killing two birds with one stone by (1) easing the stresses of mothers & (2) increasing skill and familiarity for future mothers. Additionally, “retired mothers” with kids out of the home can be paid by the state to help out. I don’t see a de-atomized future as a possibility.
I've read too many comments on this, and I have not read one woman saying "Yes this is horrible that this is happening, this is why I have been volunteering to help my niece/cousin/friend/neighbor with watching their kids/cleaning their house...".
The solution is always for somebody else to come and do the work, like the Government or what not, as if the current situation of relative isolation of mothers is not a direct result of Western women voluntarily turning their back on communal care.
There are not so many women on the motte, after all, and I think most of them would be the beneficiaries of that scenario.
I was referring to social media comments, the kind that blamed the patriarchy on mothers not getting enough help.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link