site banner
PaperclipPerfector  4d ago (text post)   18480 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 5, 2026

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

2
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I'm not able to appreciate these results because I don't understand research level math. It seems that my inability to appreciate these results is the only real consequence of my ignorance, as it doesn't look like any of these discoveries will materially change any of our lives (except maybe mathematicians' lives).

I'll be impressed when cryptography is broken.

I'll be impressed when cryptography is broken.

Cryptographic results are strikingly underrepresented in this batch. But there are a couple possibilities: 1) OAI didn't attempt any; 2) OAI attempted many and failed on all of them; or 3) OAI attempted and succeeded on many of them, but some force incentivized them not to publish the result.

You might be waiting for something that is being intentionally withheld. Atomic energy research didn't suddenly hit a wall in 1942, even if no papers on it were published.

This is my problem. My lack of math expertise means that a scenario where AI just unlocked the secrets of the universe and a scenario where they spent millions of dollars to solve some pointless toy math puzzles that we shouldn't have been funding mathematicians to work on in the first place look exactly the same to me. It's frustrating how no one impressed by these accomplishments seems to have made any effort whatsoever to explain why any of this should matter to a layman. Does Open AI not have any PR people on their team who know how to draft a proper press release?

It's frustrating how no one impressed by these accomplishments seems to have made any effort whatsoever to explain why any of this should matter to a layman.

It's been <24 hours. If you want discussion from older results, see any of the famous math youtubers like 3blue1brown for layman-accessible intros: https://youtube.com/watch?v=TfyPshgMbug.

After discussing with GPT, my strong suspicion is that this is because there isn't much to say. The results broadly fall into:

  1. Tiny improvements (1^1.128) to the effeciency of things we already knew how to do.
  2. Solutions to problems for which we already have far more efficient approximators, or which only apply under conditions which will never apply.
  3. Proof of things that we already knew with great certainty but couldn't prove.
  4. Insider baseball.

What was the most recent mathematics result that didn’t fall into one of those categories?

They benefit from maintaining mystique if the actual successes are less than what the hype suggests (as you hypothesize). You're not giving their marketing departments enough credit if you'd think they'd fumble not trumpeting something of serious consequence where investment inflows are concerned, especially given a pattern of relentless, and indeed unprecedented, hype mongering.

They have PR people but they don't understand the results either.

I believe one of the AI companies published a break in one of the post-quantum crypto finalists (HAWK). It wasn't the one NIST settled on, but I bet they looked at those. Note that NIST published crypto standards have at least once in the past been resistant to attacks not yet published when they were chosen.

But also, the P=NP Millenium Problem, which hasn't been claimed yet, would have very strong cryptography implications depending on the direction that goes.

But also, the P=NP Millenium Problem, which hasn't been claimed yet, would have very strong cryptography implications depending on the direction that goes.

If a constructive proof of P=NP is found, smart money would make an easy trillion+ dollars mining bitcoin and shorting the cryptocurrency markets (and all digital infrastructure stocks, for that matter) before claiming the piddling little Clay Millennium Prize.

That's for amateurs. I'd open a travelling salesmen route-planning company!

Depends on if the construction is galactic or not. We might have NP=P formally, but never be able to use it on any remotely practical problem. The world would mostly continue running as is.

I'll be impressed when cryptography is broken.

A lot of people give lambs to the pure math status cult, so those people need to be impressed since AI just automated pure math completely.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats